ECT Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

[God's Truth]

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.

Matthew 23:2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Luke 19:44
They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

2 Corinthians 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?



READ HOW PAUL THOUGH STOPS ANY NEW JEW CONVERSION:



Galatians 5:3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Galatians 5:2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.




The Jews who believed in Jesus were in a dangerous predicament.

But it is why Jesus tells the Jews to keep obeying the old testament laws because the temple is still standing...not because the new gospel isn't for them yet, but because the old temple is still standing and the pharisees are unbelievers enforcing the old law.

Paul tells the GENTILES that they are getting persecuted by their own people because of Jesus, AS THE JEWS ARE.

Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him,

1 Thessalonians 2:14
For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews,

 

[God's Truth]

Just like when Paul said he did NOT violate the temple law...he also did some old law temple practices---NOT because it was still the Way, but because it was meaningless for salvation, but still in force due to the temple still standing.

Acts 25:8 Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar."


Just like obeying Caesar does not do anything for salvation, neither does obeying the old law the unbelieving Jews demanded.

 

[God's Truth]

You are doing what Paul said that God should forbid: you are making the Law void through faith.

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

The Law says "Do not murder", so you are telling us not to keep that commandment because it is in the Old Covenant Mosaic Law, meaning we should murder?
The Law says "Do not steal", so you are telling us not to keep that commandment because it is in the Old Covenant Mosaic Law, meaning we should steal?

No, we are always to do what is right and do what is righteous, whether it is found in a commandment in the Law or whether it is not found in any law.

There is a new law.

The new law still tells us to love by not murdering, stealing, committing adultery...

The new law though says Jesus purifies us and the old works of the law called purification works are NO MORE.

 

[God's Truth]

Same one and only gospel that the Jews had before the Gentiles:

1 Thessalonians 2 Their Conversion


13For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 14For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.


Did you read how PAUL told the GENTILES IN THESSALONIA that THEY became IMITATORS of the JEWS, AND HOW the JEWS did NOT want the GENTILES to hear the one and only gospel so that they could be saved JUST LIKE THE JEWS.

 

[Right Divider]

Then it is a good thing I did not lie about what you said.

You treat any scripture that is not "about us" as if it is not "for us", so you are making a distinction that is meaningless to how you interpret scripture.

Stop straining at gnats and treating Paul's use of the Law and the Prophets with a Jewish audience as if Paul was not using it to prove that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah.
Stop trying to teach that the Jewish believers in Jesus were not Christians simply because they were not ignorant of the scriptures the way that the Gentiles Christians were.

Your inability to understand that God's instructions to different people at different times varies is your fundamental problem.

Why were the twelve not the first ones called Christians? Why were the disciples first called Christians outside of Israel? Acts 11:26

 

[God's Truth]

Christian means someone who follows Christ.

When Jesus walked the earth and had his earthly ministry, there were Jews who followed him.

Paul calls it Jews first then Gentiles.


Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Romans 2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

Acts 3:26 When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 18:6 But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."



Of course Jesus is going to come first for the Jews who believed in God and waited for the Messiah.

 

[7djengo7]

There is NO such thing as "initial salvation" in the Bible.

What, RD? You don't believe a person is saved by some clergyman signing his initials on a baptismal certificate?

 

[7djengo7]

Interesting thread title:

Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

It would seem that whoever uses this phrase, "loving Jesus enough to obey Him", wants to tell us that loving Jesus and obeying Jesus are two, different, distinct things--that loving Jesus is not the same thing as obeying Jesus. I mean, if we consider that loving Jesus IS obeying Jesus, then the phrase, "loving Jesus enough to obey Him" is nonsensical, for it becomes:

• "loving Jesus enough to [love] Him"
• "[obeying] Jesus enough to obey Him"

 

[genuineoriginal]

Your inability to understand that God's instructions to different people at different times varies is your fundamental problem.

You show an inability to understand that God's standards for what is righteous and what is wicked have not changed since the beginning of creation and will not change even in the age to come.

 

[Right Divider]

You show an inability to understand that God's standards for what is righteous and what is wicked have not changed since the beginning of creation and will not change even in the age to come.

So God changes good and evil?

No, I understand God's differing instructions to different people at different time just fine.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Interesting thread title:

It would seem that whoever uses this phrase, "loving Jesus enough to obey Him", wants to tell us that loving Jesus and obeying Jesus are two, different, distinct things--that loving Jesus is not the same thing as obeying Jesus. I mean, if we consider that loving Jesus IS obeying Jesus, then the phrase, "loving Jesus enough to obey Him" is nonsensical, for it becomes:

• "loving Jesus enough to [love] Him"
• "[obeying] Jesus enough to obey Him"

John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So God changes good and evil?

No, you are doing that.

 

[Right Divider]

No, you are doing that.

No, I'm not and you are LYING again.

 

[genuineoriginal]

God's standards for what is righteous and what is wicked have not changed

So God changes good and evil?

No, you are doing that.

No, I'm not and you are LYING again.

I am not the one claiming that what God said was wicked in the Old Testament is no longer wicked.

 

[7djengo7]

John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

??

1 John 5:2 KJV By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

Are we to understand this as, "...when we [keep God's commandments], and keep his commandments"?

 

[7djengo7]

John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Originally posted by genuineoriginal: Every verse that says that Jesus is the Son of God proves that Jesus is NOT God.

Do you now say that Jesus IS God?

 

[God's Truth]

Do you now say that Jesus IS God?

Good point

 

[lifeisgood]

It always amazes me (nah for I expect it) that SOME Christians make God's FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary in NEED of our WORKS so that God can SAVE us as if we could add anything to HIS ALREADY FINISHED work. What a foolish premise. No wonder the Church is in such a mess.

SALVATION is TOTAL, COMPLETELY, ENTIRELY from God. He even PROVIDES the measure of FAITH He needs to work with so that He can save us (Romans 12:3-8).

AFTER God has SAVED US ALL BY HIS LONESOME SELF, we because now we are saved AFTER He did it, enjoy loving Him, doing good deeds, praising Him, telling others about HIS WORK in our lives WITHOUT US doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, etc. It is all because we are ALREADY saved and NOT to get saved.

The WORKS is BECAUSE we have BEEN SAVED. God CAME DOWN to PICK US UP because HE KNEW there is no way that WE COULD GO TO HIM for there is NOT ONE THAT LOOKS FOR GOD. God came looking for us. Let us work in such a knowledge and tell others that AFTER God has DONE HIS WORK in us (saved us), then we out of our love for Him, do the good works THAT HE HAS PREPARED FOR US TO DO (Eph. 2:10) so that HE can CONFORM us to the IMAGE of HIS SON.


PS: Uppercase is NOT screaming. It is easier for emphasis.

 

[Right Divider]

​

I am not the one claiming that what God said was wicked in the Old Testament is no longer wicked.

Neither did I. So stop lying about what I say.

 

[Bright Raven]

It always amazes me (nah for I expect it) that SOME Christians make God's FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary in NEED of our WORKS so that God can SAVE us as if we could add anything to HIS ALREADY FINISHED work. What a foolish premise. No wonder the Church is in such a mess.

SALVATION is TOTAL, COMPLETELY, ENTIRELY from God. He even PROVIDES the measure of FAITH He needs to work with so that He can save us (Romans 12:3-8).

AFTER God has SAVED US ALL BY HIS LONESOME SELF, we because now we are saved AFTER He did it, enjoy loving Him, doing good deeds, praising Him, telling others about HIS WORK in our lives WITHOUT US doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, etc. It is all because we are ALREADY saved and NOT to get saved.

The WORKS is BECAUSE we have BEEN SAVED. God CAME DOWN to PICK US UP because HE KNEW there is no way that WE COULD GO TO HIM for there is NOT ONE THAT LOOKS FOR GOD. God came looking for us. Let us work in such a knowledge and tell others that AFTER God has DONE HIS WORK in us (saved us), then we out of our love for Him, do the good works THAT HE HAS PREPARED FOR US TO DO (Eph. 2:10) so that HE can CONFORM us to the IMAGE of HIS SON.


PS: Uppercase is NOT screaming. It is easier for emphasis.

Use of the uppercase (all caps) when answering in a forum is considered yelling.