LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[The Graphite]

Actually, here's a better way of looking at the parallels, rather than separating them so much. This is how I presented it at the Lost Theories website.


TWO: The survivors explored a lot of the various hatches and locations of Dharma. Several of the survivors are taken prisoner by the Others and stay with them for a while in one of the Dharma locations. They are gone from the survivors camp for nearly 3 weeks.
FIVE: Some of the survivors went to the Dharma village, where they lived for 3 years among the Dharma people, going around to a lot of the Dharma hatches and locations.

TWO: And they also dealt with another group of survivors who crashed elsewhere on the island, a group which included a darkly cynical woman who is experienced with guns (Anna Lucia), a large husky brute of a guy who has a hidden softer side (Eko), and also a quiet and charming guy (Bernard).
FIVE: We also met some more survivors from a crash on another part the island, including a darkly cynical woman who is experienced with guns (Ilana), a large husky brute of a guy who has a hidden softer side (Bram), and also a quiet and charming guy (Caesar).

TWO: Sawyer gets possession of all of the guns.
FIVE: Sawyer is put in charge of the guns (he becomes the Dharma sheriff)

TWO: Ben (aka Henry Gale) is tortured by Sayid and held captive by Jack and other survivors, but one of the survivors betrays the rest by risking everything to rescue Ben, even though he knows Ben is the leader of the Others and is responsible for many terrible things
FIVE: A young Ben is shot by Sayid. Jack and others refuse to help Ben, but another survivor takes it upon herself to risk everything to rescue young Ben, even knowing he will be the leader of the Others and will be responsible for many terrible things.

TWO: They found their way to the hatch. They argued over whether to do something (push the button) in the hatch. The season ended with a lot of arguing over whether to push the button, and finally they don't push the button, and BOOM!
FIVE: They found their way to (what would be) the hatch, where they argued over whether to use some modern technology (bomb) to counteract the island's dangerous "energy." And then "pushed the button" and blew it up (or more accurately, it imploded, just like the hatch did in Season 2).

 

[The Graphite]

Graphite: Interesting. I don't think it's as crisp as you're presenting it, but I do agree. The two most accurate/pointing things IMO from your two above posts that I'm paying attention to this season are simply: "mirrors" and "parallels."

Think of all the mirrors since the season started (besides the obvious lighthouse mirrors): Jack on the plane seeing blood on his neck (was it actually there? we didn't see); Locke looking at himself in the mirror right before making a firm decision not to call Jack for a consult and beginning to accept his paralysis; Kate in front of a mirror (though she only gave a glance) before connecting with Claire's belongings and going to return them to her; Jack becoming confused as he looks at his appendectomy scar in the mirror... I haven't seen tonight's episode. But otherwise, there have been mirrors playing a role in all of them so far this season.

The biggest symbolic "parallel" I've noticed so far were the ladders to/from the cave. Of course I could have made that symbolism up in my mind. Bt consider that [f]Locke could have let Sawyer die right there when he fell if he wanted. But he pulled him over to one of the other ladders. Were those parallel ladders odd to anyone else?

But less obscurely, I think we'll start seeing more parallels (& results/consequences) showing up between the island and the current LA landing... And increasingly, things that happen in LA that show up on the island (rather than the more already apparent vice-versa) ... I think things that happen in "the past" in LA will show up in on the Island. In the current time frame we're looking at this season (the "future"), and also the island time frame(s) we saw in the first seasons. Weird forward/backward loops. Like Locke telling Helen that he's alright (when he fell from his wheelchair onto the lawn in LA), just as he'd very oddly said to Kate in season one "I'm alright Helen, I just got the wind knocked out of me" when he got knocked over by a boar on the island and became discombobulated. Or like in past seasons, when we've seen slightly different versions of the same thing ... As Charlie playing music on the street in London and the rain starting to fall, in two different episodes/scenes, each just slightly different (besides that Desmond was in one and not the other)... He was facing a different way, there were different people, etc. But it was obviously the same day/scenario. But I think those LA/island parallels will become increasingly profound, eventually moving to life/death scenarios. Maybe they'll shift from different timeline scenarios we've seen (50's, 70's, 2000's).

"Past" effecting "future," but also, "future" effecting "past." I put them in quotes because I'm not sure if they're happening simultaneously.

Anyway, that's as far as I've gone out on a limb regarding time on LOST.

Looking forward to seeing tonights show (tomorrow). I expect people to begin dying.

Dude, wow, great call on the mirrors, I totally agree!

Second, the influence of the ALT world creeping into the minds of the people on the island, I have seen other theories which have pointed this out. Guess what? Here's a freaky one...

I can't remember when, but I think in Season 1 later on, Sawyer is ill and Kate is with him, and he asks her why she killed him. Delirium? What a strange thing to write into the story. "Why did you kill me?" he asks Kate. Errhhhh??? Will we see Kate kill Sawyer? Tune in to find out!

 

[zoo22]

Dude, wow, great call on the mirrors, I totally agree!

Well, I just watched the new episode, and didn't see any mirrors...

Second, the influence of the ALT world creeping into the minds of the people on the island, I have seen other theories which have pointed this out.

Guess what? Here's a freaky one...

I can't remember when, but I think in Season 1 later on, Sawyer is ill and Kate is with him, and he asks her why she killed him. Delirium? What a strange thing to write into the story. "Why did you kill me?" he asks Kate. Errhhhh??? Will we see Kate kill Sawyer? Tune in to find out!

I'd thought he was channeling Kate's father/stepfather. But yeah, that's definitely one of those odd crossover moments. In that case, it seemed a voice from the dead, but maybe it was Sawyer... From some other timeline.

This most recent episode didn't give me any new ideas (yet anyway) ... Though I wasn't entirely convinced that there was a cut & dry evil, and I am more inclined to believe that now. I'm still not convinced of who it is though... I'm still not convinced that Jacob's good and MIB's bad. And I'm still not convinced that Smokey is one-sided, or only equated with MIB. It just doesn't make sense to me that MIB would have Smokey, and Jacob wouldn't have the same or something similar.

I'm looking forward to Desmond's return. He'd explain things sometimes. lain:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Jack smashing the mirrors has evoked a very strong response from just about everyone I meet. Usually I am the only guy to defend Jack. I say... if you found a "peep hole" into your life that has caused your entire existence to be a torturous tragedy you might smash the mirrors as well. :madmad:

I'm guessing the show producers are chuckling to themselves knowing how frustrated they made everyone. :chuckle:

 

[GuySmiley]

Jack smashing the mirrors has evoked a very strong response from just about everyone I meet. Usually I am the only guy to defend Jack. I say... if you found a "peep hole" into your life that has caused your entire existence to be a torturous tragedy you might smash the mirrors as well. :madmad:

I'm guessing the show producers are chuckling to themselves knowing how frustrated they made everyone. :chuckle:

Jack smashing the mirrors is another example of a problem I think the entire series has had. When given an opportunity to learn more about the island, the flight 815 survivors just never seem that interested. With Jack at the lighthouse, I'd think he may check out the names by the degree markers more, or he might have turned the mirror to different people names to see what the mirror would show for them. And of course why not turn it to 108 like Jacob said to see what happened.

But in other situations, they never seem to check things out or ask the right questions. I can only remember a couple but I've felt this from season 2 on. When Sawyer and Kate escape from the other island, and they have Ben's daughter's boyfriend with them, they dont ask any questions.

The reason is obvious, the writers dont have them ask questions because they don't want to give out the info But it drives me nuts, and its not realistic.

 

[zoo22]

Jack smashing the mirrors has evoked a very strong response from just about everyone I meet. Usually I am the only guy to defend Jack. I say... if you found a "peep hole" into your life that has caused your entire existence to be a torturous tragedy you might smash the mirrors as well. :madmad:

I'm guessing the show producers are chuckling to themselves knowing how frustrated they made everyone. :chuckle:

For me the frustration wasn't about not getting more information, it was just that it was too far over-the-top... I can suspend disbelief through most of LOST, but sometimes the absurdity barrier shatters. Like Jack's magic mirror smashing.

But maybe the island "game" is actually a stupidity contest, and by smashing the magic mirrors, Jack won.

Hm. And Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard who, observing Jack's antics, keeled over dead in shock at how little he's learned through his passages through time... ?

 

[The Graphite]

I hadn't considered that point of view, but I have to agree with Knight. We, as viewers, have the same advantage that Jacob did with the lighthouse -- we get to be peeping toms in these people's lives, and we derive entertainment from their ups and downs, their intimacies and their tragedies. Put yourself in Jack's shoes, and consider if you found out that someone had been spying on you for your entire life, and that this was part of a grand manipulation of the course of your life, especially in crashing you on this God-forsaken island where people experience (literally) torturous tribulations and even get killed. I have to admit, I'd be outraged, as well.

Of course, since we're in Jacob's position, we have a selfish desire to leave the mirrors as they are. We want to continue to have the peeping tom advantage. And we will, for a while, because our "lighthouse" is our TV set. Ironically, the real peeping tom Jacob doesn't seem to mind the mirrors being smashed. But, the fans do!

 

[GuySmiley]

I hadn't considered that point of view, but I have to agree with Knight. We, as viewers, have the same advantage that Jacob did with the lighthouse -- we get to be peeping toms in these people's lives, and we derive entertainment from their ups and downs, their intimacies and their tragedies. Put yourself in Jack's shoes, and consider if you found out that someone had been spying on you for your entire life, and that this was part of a grand manipulation of the course of your life, especially in crashing you on this God-forsaken island where people experience (literally) torturous tribulations and even get killed. I have to admit, I'd be outraged, as well.

Of course, since we're in Jacob's position, we have a selfish desire to leave the mirrors as they are. We want to continue to have the peeping tom advantage. And we will, for a while, because our "lighthouse" is our TV set. Ironically, the real peeping tom Jacob doesn't seem to mind the mirrors being smashed. But, the fans do!

Yeah I'd be outraged too, but that would make me want to know more. I'd at least have turned the mirror to the other peoples names first, and then smashed it.

Wouldn't he be interested that there are names by the degree markers, and they correspond to the numbers? And if they were supposed to turn it to 108, wouldnt you be intereted in who that is? Not just as a viewer, but Jack ought to be interrested. He can't be both outraged and uninterrested at the same time :chuckle:

 

[zoo22]

Well, I just watched the new episode, and didn't see any mirrors...

I just rewatched and there is a reflection: When Sayid is waiting at Nadia's door in LA, there's a shot of his face in the glass where half of his face is clear/in the light, and the other half is obscured in shadows. Okay, not an actual mirror, but an obvious reflection/mirrored image.

If it is intended/significant (I believe it is), I think it's the first time we've actually seen a hint of something happening in the "future" reflected in the "past." (In this timeline anyway). We're not sure yet about what was going on with the blood on Jack's neck... Sayid's light/dark shift is actually unfolding in front of us.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Wouldn't he be interested that there are names by the degree markers, and they correspond to the numbers? And if they were supposed to turn it to 108, wouldnt you be intereted in who that is? Not just as a viewer, but Jack ought to be interrested. He can't be both outraged and uninterrested at the same time :chuckle:

Keep in mind Jack wasn't with Sawyer in "Jacobs" cave therefore Jack doesn't know as much about what the numbers are supposed to mean as we do.

Still... I would have been more curious than Jack about the lighthouse mirrors, but that's the fun of the show... getting "oh so close" to vital information only to have it smashed to pieces leaving only our imaginations to figure things out.

 

[GuySmiley]

Keep in mind Jack wasn't with Sawyer in "Jacobs" cave therefore Jack doesn't know as much about what the numbers are supposed to mean as we do.

Still... I would have been more curious than Jack about the lighthouse mirrors, but that's the fun of the show... getting "oh so close" to vital information only to have it smashed to pieces leaving only our imaginations to figure things out.

Yeah its Jack's first exposure to the numbers and names thing which should make him even more interrested. But of course thats the way the writers want it. Its fun in a frustrating drive you crazy kind of way :chuckle: But I keep coming back for more lol.

 

[Hilston]

On the subject of mirrors and reflections, have a look at this promotional poster (from season 4, I think):

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/HUGE-LOST-Season-4-poster-lost-649688_1392_1920.jpg

 

[The Graphite]

The meaning of the name Aaron is very fuzzy, and no one agrees for sure what it means, but one of the possible meanings of the name is "one who is in the light" or "one who is becoming light." Another commonly conjectured possibility is simply "mountain."

Of course, we all know that Jacob means "usurper" or "deceitful" or "grasps the heel." (Personally, I have long wondered if this is the origin of the phrase "pulling my leg" to convey deceit, since the name "Jacob" means both of those things!)

Who else's name's meaning is shrouded in mystery? David. There is no clear indication of what it means, specifically. There are many possibilities, including "love" or "beloved" or instead, "pottery vessel."

 

[Adam]

Of course, we all know that Jacob means "usurper" or "deceitful" or "grasps the heel." (Personally, I have long wondered if this is the origin of the phrase "pulling my leg" to convey deceit, since the name "Jacob" means both of those things!)

So who is the Esau in this story?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So who is the Esau in this story?

The obvious answer would be the MIB (man in black). But that does seem a bit obvious, so maybe it isn't as simple as that. We shall see.

 

[InHope]

Yeah its Jack's first exposure to the numbers and names thing which should make him even more interrested. But of course thats the way the writers want it. Its fun in a frustrating drive you crazy kind of way :chuckle: But I keep coming back for more lol.

It seems like Hurley is the one who would be the most likely to notice the numbers.

 

[Adam]

The obvious answer would be the MIB (man in black). But that does seem a bit obvious, so maybe it isn't as simple as that. We shall see.

I'm just starting to wonder if non-Locke is a good guy.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I'm just starting to wonder if non-Locke is a good guy.

It's possible that both Jacob and the MIB are bad guys.

 

[Town Heretic]

...The reason is obvious, the writers dont have them ask questions because they don't want to give out the info But it drives me nuts, and its not realistic.

It's not whazzit? lain:

:rotfl:

Not everything can be as believable as time travel or an ancient guy who turns into a smoke monster, GS. :denver:

With Lost you don't so much have to suspend disbelief as forget you know how. If Coleridge had lived to see this he'd have spent the rest of his life writing play-by-play. oly:

And is anyone else as tired of Jack's little outraged tantrums as I am? :IA: How the Sam Hill did he get into a medical school? :dunce: I agree about the mirror bit and his lack of insight when most needed. There are probably planets with less density per square inch than you find on display in an average episode.

I wish Hurley had decked him when Jack picked up the metal bit and decided to go all Cobretti. :maxi: It would have redeemed the whole thing for me, which has been turning south faster than a flock of geese in a blizzard since the Lock debacle. :mmph:

 

[GuySmiley]

It's not whazzit? lain:

:rotfl:

Not everything can be as believable as time travel or an ancient guy who turns into a smoke monster, GS. :denver:

With Lost you don't so much have to suspend disbelief as forget you know how. If Coleridge had lived to see this he'd have spent the rest of his life writing play-by-play. oly:

And is anyone else as tired of Jack's little outraged tantrums as I am? :IA: How the Sam Hill did he get into a medical school? :dunce: I agree about the mirror bit and his lack of insight when most needed. There are probably planets with less density per square inch than you find on display in an average episode.

I wish Hurley had decked him when Jack picked up the metal bit and decided to go all Cobretti. :maxi: It would have redeemed the whole thing for me, which has been turning south faster than a flock of geese in a blizzard since the Lock debacle. :mmph:

:chuckle: Do I have to explain my obsession with realism in TV and movies? I think its part of my slight OCD, and why I hate Alice In Wonderland. The short version is, yes, I want realism in shows, including Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, LOST, Battlestar Galactica, etc. Maybe a better word is consistency, but basically given a world in which the show takes place, I expect the story to be internally consistant. So smoke monsters and time travel fit the story, and are "realistic", but Jack and friends complete uninterest in whats happening to them isn't.

Do you see why I hate Alice In Wonderland? There are no rules in that universe, and I don't like it.