Letter of Apology

[BillyBob]

Compliments of Frank Ernest:
[Author unknown - sentiment shared]


For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre.

I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.

I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.

I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.

I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.

I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.

I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.

I am sorry the French are french?

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.

 

[On Fire]

:chuckle:

 

[Crow]

That last line....:darwinsm:

 

[PureX]

Let's look only at the good things we do, so that we can ignore the bad things we do. That way we can feel really righteous about ourselves and avoid having to take responsibility for anything that might impune our egos.

OK?

 

[Lucky]

Who is only looking at the good things we do?

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by PureX

Let's look only at the good things we do, so that we can ignore the bad things we do. That way we can feel really righteous about ourselves and avoid having to take responsibility for anything that might impune our egos.

OK?

Are we letting this matter go? Is something being done about it? Are you ever capable of seeing a point that is trying to be made?

We are expected to give an apology to something miniscule in comparison to the evil that they've committed. They're certainly not going to offer apologies to us. Sounds to me as if as far as your concerned they shouldn't be expected to suffer any consequences whatsoever for their actions but by golly, we'd better be willing to just offer whalings and apologies if we even sneeze wrong.

 

[NavyDude]

Re: Letter of Apology

Originally posted by BillyBob

I am sorry the French are french?

:crackup:

 

[Redfin]

Gary King attributes this to Chuck Pitman, Lieutenant General, US Marine Corps (Retired). The "French" line is not in that version.

 

[Redfin]

The "other side" apparently has some thoughts on this too...

Letter of Apology
(author unknown)

In Italics:
Response to Letter
(Ralou)


For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre.

It's not minor. Americans have maimed, tortured, and murdered prisoners since the war in Afghanistan began. It has continued on in Iraq. If it were your family member, you would want vengeance, not belittlement.

I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:

None of this is an apology. It's squirming out of the facts, negating evidence, belittling suffering, and pointing fingers and saying 'they're bad, too!' rather than accepting blame and being willing to fix the problem.

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

That doesn't excuse the times before when we took up arms against Muslims, such as in Iran, Iraq (we armed Saddam, he attacked Muslims, therefore, we had a hand in it), and Indonesia (we support to this day human rights violators who murder Muslims and others).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

No, a call for their heads on sticks came. And for the heads of any government who supported them. And for the head of a government who didn't even support them. Now, what if our heads are called for over Abu Ghraib?

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.

Does this justify Abu Ghraib for you?

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.

Our favorite Arab regime, Saudi Arabia, is the worst for this, yet we support them to this day. In fact, Iran gave power to its people in a referendum over oil revenues. The people voted in a way we didn't like. They voted to nationalize Iran's oil. Our planes started bombing a couple days later.

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.

Not all do. In fact, many of the friendly governments in these regions are repressing the few democratic reforms that have been achieved in order to stop their people from sending support and even fighters to Iraq. The hate is often bred by our own actions. And by our support for brutal dictators friendly to our interests. Like Saddam Hussein was for thirty years.

I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."

Do you honestly think that, without Arafat, there would be no 'Palestinian Cause'?

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.[

They don't take them in or help them because they want the Palestinians to keep fighting.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.

They are sorry that their oil wealth has, for decades, been siphoned out of their treasuries and into corporate hands, depriving them of the wealth of their own nations.

I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.

Wrong. We do understand. We also understand what the media doesn't tell us. We understand what the right will not even look squarely at: that America's own actions have bred most of the hatred others feel toward us.

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

The Iraqis are sorry we supported Saddam for thirty years, and they are also sorry that many of our own corporations participated in this Oil for Food Scandal. They are likely also sorry that millions starved and died because of our sanctions.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.

They are sorry our fighter pilots get paid to drop cluster bombs on civilian areas.

I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.

I am wondering why you are looking for a virgin. Clearly, you aren't one, or you would have found one.
They are sorry that their children have been maimed and killed by our bombs.

I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.

They are sorry that people like you seem to define the word 'freedom' in such a way that occupation, death, maiming, and torture in our prisons constitutes the 'freedom' those troops died for. I'm sure the troops are sorry, too.

I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.

They are sorry to be in the middle of a civil war with two sides supported by Iraqis: our side, and their side.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

They are sorry that we have mercenaries from Pinochet's brutal regime and from the apartheid regime of South Africa in their country. They see this as an indication that we intend to terrorize, brutalize, torture, and murder any Iraqi who feels free to disagree with our occupation.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)

They are sorry we cluster bombed Baghdad (note, cluster bombs are known for indiscriminately maiming and killing civilians). They are also no doubt sorry about our use of napalm.

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".

They are no doubt sorry they don't have the foliage of Vietnam to fight from.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.[

They are sorry that some Americans are still so ignorant that they think Iraqis were on that plane.

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.

I am sorry Bush is President. He couldn't care less about feeding a medium sized village anywhere.

I am sorry the French are french?

I am sorry that fascism, racism, and other isms are growing steadily in America today.

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

The higher levels responsible will never be punished. The dirty laundry only got hung because those cameras (hated openly by Rumsfeld) found there way into the prison. 6000 pages of the Taguba report, minus fifty or so pages of excerpts, and thousands of photos and videos, and the names of contractors and Military Intelligence officers involved, have not been hung out. We are all sorry about that. It tells us that our Government has no intention of coming clean.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.

Prisoners were murdered and raped. But most Americans ducked deep down to avoid the truth. As usual. "So what?" comes from deliberate ignorance. It's also evident that reports that at least 60 percent and perhaps 90 percent of all Abu Ghraib prisoners were innocent of any crime has also been ducked by the willfully ignorant.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.

They don't want your kind of American to apologize. They want your kind of American in a place where flames, and not virgins, dance around you for eternity.

I don't blame them.

Source

 

[PureX]

Originally posted by Poly

Are we letting this matter go? Is something being done about it? Are you ever capable of seeing a point that is trying to be made?

We are expected to give an apology to something miniscule in comparison to the evil that they've committed. They're certainly not going to offer apologies to us. Sounds to me as if as far as your concerned they shouldn't be expected to suffer any consequences whatsoever for their actions but by golly, we'd better be willing to just offer whalings and apologies if we even sneeze wrong.

When we as individuals or as a nation, screw up, we should admit it and make amends for our screw up as best we can.

We invaded another country under false pretenses and we killed many thousands of people. You think this is a "miniscule" error? Somehow I suspect that the thousands of families who've lost loved ones because of our "miniscule" mistake would feel differently. Yet the point of this thread seemed to be to glorify some of the good things we've done (for other muslims) so that we can ignore having to take responsibility for this horrible and deadly mistake. And in fact this seems to likewise be the point of your post.

I understood the "point" of this thread quite clearly. And that's why I wasn't going to let it go unchallenged.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by PureX

When we as individuals or as a nation, screw up, we should admit it and make amends for our screw up as best we can.

And we are doing something about it.

We invaded another country under false pretenses and we killed many thousands of people. You think this is a "miniscule" error? Somehow I suspect that the thousands of families who've lost loved ones because of our "miniscule" mistake would feel differently. Yet the point of this thread seemed to be to glorify some of the good things we've done (for other muslims) so that we can ignore having to take responsibility for this horrible and deadly mistake. And in fact this seems to likewise be the point of your post.


I understood the "point" of this thread quite clearly. And that's why I wasn't going to let it go unchallenged.

OOOO!! PureX has done his "holy deed for the day" in challenging this thread.
I still say you need to get your "point" checker checked.
The point of the letter was in response to the enemy seeking an apology for an isolated event. Not the war as a whole and yeah, we all know how you feel about the war as a whole. :yawn:

 

[PureX]

Originally posted by Poly The point of the letter was in response to the enemy seeking an apology for an isolated event. Not the war as a whole and yeah, we all know how you feel about the war as a whole.

We owe them an apology for all of it. Though what good an apology would do without making amends is questionable. And how do we make amends for such an incredible blunder? How do we make amends for killing thousands and thousands of people based on lies?

This is why Bush can't face his own cataclysmic mistake, and why most Americans would rather continue the killing than admit to themselves what we've really done.

And this is why we're an embarrassment among nations, just as an individual that would behave this way is an embarrassment among men.

 

[aikido7]

What about not apologizing for the United States being the divine city on the hill which can decide that "freedom" is the right of every person and the future of every nation, and that the liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, but a declaration of divine wishes? About not apologizing for Geroge Bush's mandate as a prophet--not a humble petitioner--of God who can issue divine desires for the nation and the world.?

Everything America does comes from good intentions. Even the deaths of millions can be justified, because each one of those deaths--though regrettable--has made the world a better place so that the peace won afterwards--at least until the next necessary war is begun--will reign forever.





Hitler had good intentions, too. He wanted to unite Germany and make the nation feel strong and worthy again after the humiliation of the 1919 surrender terms at Versailles

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mockureeX

We owe them an apology for all of it. Though what good an apology would do without making amends is questionable. And how do we make amends for such an incredible blunder? How do we make amends for killing thousands and thousands of people based on lies?

Ask your terrorist friends. They can go first.

This is why Bush can't face his own cataclysmic mistake, and why most Americans would rather continue the killing than admit to themselves what we've really done.

:cow:

And this is why we're an embarrassment among nations, just as an individual that would behave this way is an embarrassment among men.

None of this is true, of course. Don't "you people" ever get tired of shilling for the terrorists?

 

[Frank Ernest]

Originally posted by :mock::aikido:7

What about not apologizing for the United States being the divine city on the hill which can decide that "freedom" is the right of every person and the future of every nation, and that the liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, but a declaration of divine wishes? About not apologizing for Geroge Bush's mandate as a prophet--not a humble petitioner--of God who can issue divine desires for the nation and the world.?

:cow: Commie shill.

Everything America does comes from good intentions. Even the deaths of millions can be justified, because each one of those deaths--though regrettable--has made the world a better place so that the peace won afterwards--at least until the next necessary war is begun--will reign forever.

:kookoo:

Hitler had good intentions, too. He wanted to unite Germany and make the nation feel strong and worthy again after the humiliation of the 1919 surrender terms at Versailles

Oh, boy! There's the ol' Hitler comparison again. :yawn:

 

[Skeptic]

Re: Letter of Apology

Originally posted by BillyBob

Compliments of Frank Ernest:
[Author unknown - sentiment shared]


For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre.

Right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity and immorality of the government that ordered such actions.

I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

The LAST time that Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was for an unnecessary and immoral invasion and occupation of a country the was not a threat. Bush's order has resulted in the unnecessary and immoral deaths of over 1300 of our brave troops, as well as tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

I'm sorry that Bush has not apologized for the unnecessary and immoral deaths of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Iraq.

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.

I'm sorry, but making the obvious point that all of the 9/11 terrorists were Arabs simply reinforces the hatred of Arabs in general. This is harmful, not helpful in fighting terrorism.

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.

I'm sorry that Bush thinks it is OK to solve the problem of squalor by unnecessarily and immorally slaughtering tens of thousands of men, women and children to overthrow a dictator, who was not a threat. There were better and more ethical ways of dealing with Saddam.

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.

I'm sorry that some of their hatred of the U.S. is understandable, considering the actions the U.S. has taken against their people. But all terrorist acts are unacceptable, even when they are perpetrated by the U.S. government. I also hate the fact the Bush unnecessarily and immoral killed tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Iraq. Hatred toward America would dramatically decrease if Bush and his neocon buddies apologized for their atrocities.

I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."

I'm sorry that Israel and the Bush administration do not care about the Palestinian cause.

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.

I'm sorry that you are wrong. Arab countries have provided hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Palestinians. For example, after a short search, I found that, in 2002, Saudi Arabia gave Palestinians over $2 billion.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.

The U.S. has not been a very big contributor to Palestinians. "Palestinians benefit from $70 million a year in U.S. aid through U.N. refugee assistance programs, as well as about $75 million administered to water, housing, employment, and democracy programs." http://www.terrorismanswers.com/policy/foreignaid2.html

I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.

I'm sorry that our own right-wing elite and right-wing media can't understand the truth. They are encouraging a faith-based support of the Bush righties, as opposed to a reality-based understanding.

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

I'm sorry that you falsely imply that the UN as a whole "scammed" Iraq.

"No one has questioned the commitment or the integrity or the impact of the United Nations humanitarian efforts," he said in response to a question on the Oil-for-Food allegations. "That has not even been a matter in dispute."

The White House website, he pointed out, has UNICEF and the overall UN relief effort on its list of charities that are reliable. "So there is absolutely no dispute about that as far as I know across the political spectrum in America," he said.

Mr. Dujarric (UN spokesperson) pointed out that the Oil-for-Food programme "did fulfil its main objective by providing humanitarian relief to 27 million Iraqis and thereby helping to maintain political support for the sanctions which, in turn, prevented Saddam Hussein's regime from acquiring weapons of mass destruction." http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=13001&Cr=iraq&Cr1=oil&Kw1=Oil-for-Food&Kw2=&Kw3=

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.

So am I. At least you used the word "some."

I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.

An example of what can happen when people believe in fairy tales and superstitions.

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.

So am I. I'm also sorry that Bush thought that the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children were considered a legitimate consequence of invading a country that was not a threat.

I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.

I'm sorry that our brave troops died unnecessarily and immorally in Iraq, along with the tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children, who were only freed of their lives. Any alleged "freedom" the Iraqi people might acquire as a result of Bush's unnecessary and immoral invasion will NOT justify the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.

Since March 2003, Bush is responsible for the deaths of more Iraqi people than are Muslim extremists.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

Thanks to Bush.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)

I'm sorry you think that our troops need to kill more people who are fighting an invading and occupying force that unnecessarily and immorally killed tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children, beginning in March 2003.

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".

I'm sorry that Bush and company refer to the majority of Iraqis fighting the invading and occupying U.S. as "terrorists" (who are the minority).

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.

I'm sorry that Bush and company continue to falsely implicate Iraq with 9/11.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.

Arab countries gave their condolences. Only al-Qaeda was responsible. Only al-Qaeda should apologize.

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.

I'm sorry George Bush is our President.

I am sorry the French are french?

I'm sorry the U.S. government didn't listen to the French, before unnecessarily and immorally invading Iraq. Oh, ... did I mention that the invasion unnecessarily and immorally killed tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children?

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see.

The real masterminds behind the abuses have not been punished. The real masterminds behind Bush's unnecessary and immoral slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Iraq have not been punished.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners.

Our troops were trying to kill some of these prisoners, most of whom where merely trying to repel an invading and occupying force. Many of the tortured prisoners had not been charged with fighting Americans.

Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?

Tortured.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.

You'll come around to seeing the truth, eventually.

 

[BillyBob]

Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Originally posted by Broken Record [Skeptic]

:blabla:....skip...... :blabla:....skip......:blabla:....skip...... :blabla:....skip......:blabla:....skip...... :blabla:....skip......:blabla:....skip......:blabla:....skip...... :blabla:....skip...... :blabla:....skip......:blabla:....skip...... :blabla:

 

[Skeptic]

Re: Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Re: Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Originally posted by BillyBob

Broken Record [Skeptic]

I only repeat what is likely the case, based on the evidence.

Bush, his buddies and followers remain "on message" by repeating the same lies over, and over, and over, and over, and .......

 

[BillyBob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Re: Re: Re: Re: Letter of Apology

Originally posted by Skeptic

I only repeat what is likely the case, based on the evidence.

No, you repeat the demo-commie/Michael Moore talking points...over...and over... and over......and over....and over.....

:blabla:

:yawn:

 

[keypurr]

Two wrongs NEVER make a right.

All killing is wrong. There has to be a better way to peace.