glorydaz
Well-known member
My goodness....why does GM get all the credit? You don't even want to know how many have doled out neg reps to beloved57. Suffice it to say...GM does not get all the credit.
John Calvin said this....
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
My goodness....why does GM get all the credit? You don't even want to know how many have doled out neg reps to beloved57. Suffice it to say...GM does not get all the credit.
Shasta
Well-known member
Evil is a CHOICE. I agree with that. God did not create evil because evil is not a substance or essence that can be called into existence. Evil is disobedience to the will of God. It is acting contrary to His nature. It is serving the desires of the Self instead of the desires of the Creator. In other words evil is moral. This is the way the Hebrews thought about it.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Why do folks only wanna look at 1/2 the truth?
Evil is sin.
Sin is not only breaking God's commands but also failing to do good when you know to do it.
Adam did not have the capacity to over come sin.
Romans 7:18 KJV
18 For I know that in me (that is , in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
James 4:17 KJV
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Shasta
Well-known member
What you say is true. In fact, God's will for man is to be perfectly in the image of Jesus. There is no other standard or template for the human race.
You can find the scripture which says that God ordained sin
If your house caught fire that would be evil...if somebody used knowledge of fire to torch your house that would be sin
Fire is very real, it can be good or evil...it is knowledge which makes the difference. The same is true of ice.
In the beginning the earth was void and without form and darkness covered the face of the deep...in short there was chaos...it was out of this chaos that God created order, out of darkness He created light, out of nothing He created matter.
Sin is pursuing evil for evil's sake
Love is by experience of it when Jesus dwells in our hearts....
The devil tricked Eve and Eve in turn tricked Adam. If you read that scripture as literally as you are then Adam is guiltless.
Shasta
Well-known member
Warnings alert people that they must make necessary choices to avoid disaster. If I was driving at night and saw a yellow flashing light on a sign warning me that the bridge was out that would motivate me to turn in another direction. The good intention of this providentially placed sign which is to preserve me on my way home is predicated on the assumption that I can actually turn the steering wheel, push the brakes, flash my lights in response to the warning message. If I had no control over my car, if it was being remotely controlled by some Predestinator all the signs, flashing lights and warnings signs would be pointless because I would not be in control of my car. The warnings are not incidental to my safety (mere means the Predestinator happens to use) they are directly causally related to the outcome of my trip because they appeal to my mind and volition
My second point is about God's relationship to evil. It is true that many times God turns that is very and turns around a bad thing and uses it for good. I am a living testimony of someone who prevails in spite of incapacitating weaknesses. The exact source of the incapacity is not important but it is very painful and impairing. Now I do not blame God for it. The world is fallen and such things exist but time and time again I see how God uses it to help me reach people with His love. I believe God works "in all things to the good." I do not think necessarily think all things are His good will. He allows people to make choices. He allows natural processes to take place and often He works within those things to bring about a good.
Then there are times when God takes things that are morally evil and turn them around. I know people who were severely abused as children but who have overcome and are now blessed with understanding and compassion such that they can help others. That is an example of the good use God can make of evil. This does not excuse the Enemy or the Abusers nor does it make God the author of child abuse which is not according to the will of the all-loving Father. Because God can make good come out of evil does not change the fact that the original evil was damnable nor does it make God partners with the Devil.
Yes, I believe in mystery too when it comes to knowing God; however a genuine rational and moral contradiction is not a mystery. It is simply false. Saying that God from all eternity predestined certain individuals to be damned, that He prepared them for judgement by giving them a hard heart then that he blamed THEM for rejecting Christ goes against both the justice and mercy. of the God of scriptures. It is even worse if no sacrifice was made for them in the first place.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
It's like this.
One cannot certainly say God predestined people to damnation.
By the very same token you cannot certainly say he didn't.
What is certain is that we don't get to judge God.
For good or evil.
You can say that He didn't, it is very unfortunate that the thought ever took hold...it is the fly in the ointment of what would be very good doctrine from Calvin...we should applaud his good doctrine but reject this bad.
Far, far be it from God that He should foreplan man's destruction or ordain sin, the means by which the destruction is executed.
He is the Father of lights in whom is no shadow due to change, He is not tempted neither tempts He.
Now you have to watch this closely
KNOWING that some/many would sin God ordained in the way He has designed mankind, that is under FEDERAL HEADSHIP, we all being created in Adam, we were literally in his loins
God predestined in that sin would enter the world, that the whole race of man should fall together in one act of disobedience.
THAT is what God predestined, not that man should sin, but that knowing many would He has made it so that we would all fall together
WHY?
To make it possible that by one act of obedience by a future Federal Head all could be saved but that those who He foreknew would certainly be saved.
This working by one act of rebellion and one act of obedience is what discounts Limited Atonement.
That is what is meant by "He assigned all under sin, that He might have mercy on all"
I think this is foolishness and childish nonsense! Stupidity really.
ONLY a person who, at the very least, leaned heavily toward the "God predestined people to damnation" could ever say such a blasphemous thing! Only people who have no idea who God is and believe Him to be arbitrary could ever agree with such a blindingly idiotic comment!
Proverbs 21:12 The righteous God wisely considers the house of the wicked,
Overthrowing the wicked for their wickedness.
Overthrowing the wicked for their wickedness.
You can go on worshiping your perfectly static stone idol of Greek mythology all you like! As for me, I will serve the God of the bible, in which we read this...
2 Samuel 22:4 I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised;
Psalms 45:6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Psalms 97:2b Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne.
Psalms 45:6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Psalms 97:2b Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne.
Do you understand what those two Psalms are teaching? They're teaching that you have it backward! God's throne (i.e. His sovereignty) is founded on His RIGHTEOUSNESS!!! Not the other way around. If God is unjust then He is not worthy of worship. So says the bible and so says me!
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.
Amen!
Resting in Him,
Clete
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
"Who desires ALL PEOPLE to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4
Zeke
Well-known member
But he did major on one truism that effects us, and there is grain of truth in every theological rabbit hole, yet the extreme apostles of all of them get caught up in a particle of the facts that make up our existence here in a body or prison of the Conscience hypnotized by mortal experience.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
When you begin to understand the difference between the Father and the son you will not be so confused.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Whole bunch of speculation.
You have to believe some more manmade nonsense about a supposed fall.
If Adam was not a sinner he would not have sinned.
Get over it, God created a sinner.
Scriptures please, I gave you scripture, I expect the same from you not your lazy good for nothing peculations...where will they get me.
The bible nowhere says God created man a sinner
It DOES say that God can neither be tempted with evil nor tempteth He any man.
God created man in His image...is God then a sinner?
Adam was decieved
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
If you cant understand this scripture how will you understand any others? :kookoo:
1 Timothy 2:14 KJV
14 And Adam was not deceived , but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.