Jesus the Messiah died for me.

[Caino]

Is it possible that the idea Jesus died for our sins was not really an integral part of His message but rather an emphasis of someone else's interpretation of Jesus' message? Did Jesus ever really say those words? Could a person simply have highlighted certain parts of His message in a way that promoted the popular Roman belief that a man could become a God and the Jewish belief in sacrifice? If we just read the four gospels by themselves would we have the same view of the story of Jesus? Would we be influenced by the rest of it and encouraged to remember another person's explanation or what someone else wanted us to remember, even a person who really did not know Jesus while he was alive?

Good questions which answer themselves in light of what became of the gospel.

If the Jews were receptive to the original gospel of Jesus, they would be teaching that today from Jerusalem......but they rejected that Gospel and killed the Son!.......however the Pagan world was found to be receptive to the new, post cross gospel of human sacrifice for sins (a much easier theory that requires only historical belief) plus the Pagans already had that theory in their primitive religious beliefs. So, Christianity was born out of a marriage of sorts, a compromise made between the remnants of the original but rejected Gospel and the new remixed to bring the Pagans in-gospel. It worked! And the Father was behind the scenes working it all out by necessity, the Jews were un-chosen.

The original gospel of Jesus was lost and replaced with a religion about Jesus.

 

[meshak]

There are many non-believers and Christians make up their own version of "Jesus".

Jesus says that narrow is the way and only a few finds it.

I hope I am not in the wide gate.

 

[Right Divider]

Is it possible that the idea Jesus died for our sins was not really an integral part of His message but rather an emphasis of someone else's interpretation of Jesus' message? Did Jesus ever really say those words? Could a person simply have highlighted certain parts of His message in a way that promoted the popular Roman belief that a man could become a God and the Jewish belief in sacrifice? Wouldn't that kind of popularity be beneficial and useful? If we just read the four gospels by themselves would we have the same view of the story of Jesus? Would we be influenced by the rest of the NT and encouraged to remember another person's explanation or what someone else wanted us to remember, even a person who really did not know Jesus while he was alive?

I guess that you're one of those that think that the only words Jesus ever spoke were the ones in the red letters.

Jesus spoke to a man named Saul/Paul and gave him His words for us today.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

"For God so loved world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

This is Jesus' own word.

Can one interpret this to mean that he died for our sins? Is that the only meaning or is it one of many possibilities?

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Good questions which answer themselves in light of what became of the gospel.

If the Jews were receptive to the original gospel of Jesus, they would be teaching that today from Jerusalem......but they rejected that Gospel and killed the Son!.......however the Pagan world was found to be receptive to the new, post cross gospel of human sacrifice for sins (a much easier theory that requires only historical belief) plus the Pagans already had that theory in their primitive religious beliefs. So, Christianity was born out of a marriage of sorts, a compromise made between the remnants of the original but rejected Gospel and the new remixed to bring the Pagans in-gospel. It worked! And the Father was behind the scenes working it all out by necessity, the Jews were un-chosen.

The original gospel of Jesus was lost and replaced with a religion about Jesus.

Whoa.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

I guess that you're one of those that think that the only words Jesus ever spoke were the ones in the red letters.

Jesus spoke to a man named Saul/Paul and gave him His words for us today.

I believe that to be true to a certain extent but again Paul was a Jew living in Ancient Rome and many of his teachings have been colored through those lenses. I'm not saying that's bad or anything. It's just something of which to be aware. What I'm trying to say is that what we sometimes take to be the one and only true interpretation of the scriptures should be taken with a grain of salt. Excluding possible interpretations at the expense of one only true interpretation may be doing more damage than good because if there comes a higher interpretation we automatically favor what we have been taught and potentially miss other pieces to the puzzle.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I believe that to be true to certain extent but again Paul was a Jew living in Ancient Rome and many of his teachings have been colored through those lenses. I'm not saying that's bad or anything. It's just something of which to be aware.

Are you a Christian believer? If so, then you won't be offended by
this question; Can you give a personal testimony of how you became
a child of God?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sometimes silence is louder than a massive bomb going off.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Are you a Christian believer? If so, then you won't be offended by
this question; Can you give a personal testimony of how you became
a child of God?

I would love to but that would take a long time. I think being a Christian is good but it is not my ultimate identity. My ultimate identity is the soul. There is no way I would trade the soul for anything. The realization is that we are all children of God because we all have infinite divinity in the soul which is the root of our intrinsic value. It doesn't do me much good to try to get that value through being a Christian. Again, being a Christian is fine but not at the expense of the infinite and eternal identity.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Sometimes silence is louder than a massive bomb going off.

Oh yes. I love silence and I think we all do on a deeper level. There is a part of us that is born from infinite silence and eternal stillness. This part of us is one with the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. That's why I find refreshment in meditation. It scatters the voices as Jesus healed the man who could not be shackled. The power of the soul is real as illustrated and personified in Jesus Christ. The kicker is that we too are to personify the soul and bear witness to connection with our everlasting divinity.

 

[Jacob]

Prove it without using your faith. Don't forget that faith proves nothing.

Everything I am sharing with you has to do with my faith.

Prove it! without using your faith. The expression "even if someone rose from the dead" means "even if the impossible could happened. You forget that Jesus was a Jew who never even dreamed the gospel of Paul would ever rise.

Sorry, you don't understand.

Okay, so show me the verses you believe there are.

There are so many of them. I come across them at different times. First, there are verses that relate to the Messiah that would come. I believe the Messiah to be Jesus. He is the Messiah. He is my Messiah. He is our Messiah. Messiah came. Messiah has come.

I can start from Psalm 22. These verses seem directly related to Yeshua (Jesus) in His death.

Psalm 22:16-18 NASB - 16 For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I can count all my bones.They look, they stare at me; 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

To give to the truth a chance.

Okay. But what do you mean?

If you can prove without the use of faith, I am ready to give in.

No need to "give in". All you need to do is allow God by His Spirit to show you the things concerning Messiah.

How could Paul say that the Law is good when he taught Christians that we have been released from the Law? Definitely
because the Law was not good. (Rom. 7:6)

No. The punishments found in the Law, that is... what the Law required as punishment for sin, was against us. But now we have been released from that, being forgiven. It means nowhere to disobey God or to not obey / observe His commands. There is a new covenant and a change in the priesthood, which means we obey Jesus. The Law still condemns the guilty. Have you ever broken God's Law? The only question that remains is if anyone, beginning with the nation of Israel all the way back to the first century, is supposed to obey God's commands found in the Law.

How could he contradict Jesus by saying that the Law was abolished in the cross when Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the Law? (Ephesians 2:15; Mat. 5:17-19)

The enmity was abolished. That which was against us has been taken out of the way. This says nothing of how anyone should not obey God's commands.

 

[Jacob]

The doctrine of atonement is selfish! Jesus Lived to make the way of salvation more clear. We already had salvation from our forgiving Heavenly Father. God has always been forgiving, no need for the original gospel to be rejected and the innocent Son/creator to be killed in order for God to forgive. Accept salvation by faith and forget about yourself already! Go do something for someone else!

I can share the gospel with you. This is part of what I have chosen to do with my life... share the gospel that people would be saved.

 

[meshak]

Can one interpret this to mean that he died for our sins? Is that the only meaning or is it one of many possibilities?

You don't seem to be reading the Gospels.

Please read them.

blessings.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You don't seem to be reading the Gospels.

Please read them.

blessings.

Hi. Do you recommend I read it literally word for word? I think this is an honest question at which we need to take a good hard look.

 

[meshak]

Hi. Do you recommend I read it literally word for word? I think this is an honest question at which we need to take a good hard look.

Yes, you say you were a catholic; from my experience I haven't met many Catholics who read the Bible.

I have been reading it repeatedly ever since I became His follower.

Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers. If we don't know what He teaches, we cannot follow Him.

 

[meshak]

Hi. Do you recommend I read it literally word for word? I think this is an honest question at which we need to take a good hard look.

For starters, read the 4 gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

They are short books. Pay attention to Jesus' word, especially.

May God bless you.

 

[Right Divider]

I believe that to be true to a certain extent but again Paul was a Jew living in Ancient Rome and many of his teachings have been colored through those lenses. I'm not saying that's bad or anything. It's just something of which to be aware. What I'm trying to say is that what we sometimes take to be the one and only true interpretation of the scriptures should be taken with a grain of salt. Excluding possible interpretations at the expense of one only true interpretation may be doing more damage than good because if there comes a higher interpretation we automatically favor what we have been taught and potentially miss other pieces to the puzzle.

Context is always the key.

There is one true interpretation and only God knows that one. But we can understand well if we study guided by the Holy Spirit. But was must always use the laws of logic that God created. There are a ton of completely illogical people here on TOL.

One problem what I have with many people here (and you seem to be following a similar pattern) is that they are not clear. They beat around the bush and ask baiting questions.

You seem to like to hint a lot and don't just get to your point.

 

[Right Divider]

I would love to but that would take a long time. I think being a Christian is good but it is not my ultimate identity. My ultimate identity is the soul. There is no way I would trade the soul for anything. The realization is that we are all children of God because we all have infinite divinity in the soul which is the root of our intrinsic value. It doesn't do me much good to try to get that value through being a Christian. Again, being a Christian is fine but not at the expense of the infinite and eternal identity.

So what are you? A Scientologist? A Christian Scientist?

You beliefs seem to be vary unbiblical and downright heretical.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

So what are you? A Scientologist? A Christian Scientist?

You beliefs seem to be vary unbiblical and downright heretical.

My true identity is the soul which is one with what is infinite and eternal. I'm not going to trade this identity for anything. What about you? And are we so concerned with not being a heretic that we are willing to exchange it for the priceless soul?

 

[Zeke]

Sometimes silence is louder than a massive bomb going off.

It certainly wasn't by a piece of paper that you believe is you, it's no wonder you have a deity created on paper as well.

Emotional historically based fuzz bunnies don't count, the true kingdom of God has always been within Luke 17:20-21, and is all things to all people taught through various stories you think are actual events, Galatians 4:24-28.

Wake up strawman.