Yes, the King James
(Luke 21:21 KJV) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
ECT Jesus Return
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Yes, the King James
(Luke 21:21 KJV) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Interplanner
Well-known member
OK, it is 'tais chorais,' so it's plural alright. I have to look this up and see what is going on with special plurals, and why NIV or TEV would dismiss it. And also see if 'chorais' was ever used about, say, Greece or Egypt, or if it just means rural/agricultural parts or just other provinces. Interesting! Thanks!
iamaberean
New member
There's more to it.
Jesus came in 70AD on the Feast of Trumpets.
Because the Feast of Trumpets occurred on a new moon, the Israelites never knew for sure what day it would be. The Sanhedrin used to send out two witnesses to confirm the new moon. It was very difficult on cloudy days, and sometimes they didn't see it for two or three days.
Only when the two witnesses returned to the Sanhedrin to confirm the new moon, did the Feast of Trumpets begin.
When Jesus said "But of that day and hour knoweth no man" it was a hint that He would return on the Feast of Trumpets, which is exactly what He did in 70AD
Here is what the two witnesses would look for:
This may be true, but my contention is how would one live their life if they knew the exact day and time their death would come?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Unless it wasn't their death, IamB. It was instructions on when to leave Jerusalem and Judea. To be safe from their destruction. To leave like Lot.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This wasn't a warning?:
"And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" (Lk.21:34-35).
You have already been shown this warning but yet you are unable to learn. You just keep using your same old arguments even though they have already been answered!
This has not yet been fulfilled:
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth (oikoumene)" (Lk.21:25-26).
Well known preterist author Gary DeMar says the following about the meaning of the Greek word oikoumene:
"The case can be made that 'oikoumene' is used exclusively for the geographical area generally limited to the Roman empire of the first-century and the territories immediately adjacent which were known and accessible to first-century travelers. When first-century Christians read the word 'oikoumene,' they thought of what they knew of their world" [emphasis mine] (Gary DeMar, "The Gospel Preached to All the World, Part 3 of 4; The Preterist Archive).
There has never been a time when a judgment came over an area of land which equaled what the first century Christians knew of their world.
I answer your points and you do not even try to answer this point of mine!
Interplanner
Well-known member
JerryS,
that's after the Judean section
that's after the Judean section
iamaberean
New member
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's right, but not their death separate from that event, like dying in a care home, quietly, peacefully.
Cross Reference
New member
At the time you speak of, Israel was surrounded by only one army, Rome. The Jews left to the four corners of the globe.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There were two legions that were sent at Jerusalem. Does it matter how many when your city is surrounded? It doesn't make any difference. 1.2M Jews died in the whole DofJ. What four corners are you talking about?
Cross Reference
New member
So what?? They will probably lose another 1.2 before then end of this age!!
And yes it does matter. You are merely stretching out one to make two to save face. <I detest "Word" abusers, those who need to make fit the scriptures to their ill-fated doctrines>
What four corners of the earth do you believe Jesus is referring to here: Rev 7:1 KJV?
Interplanner
Well-known member
the reason the armies matters is because when Lk 19 says the city will be surrounded by armies and then it is in that generation and it is pulverized, that is what Christ is talking about happening in that generation. Otherwise he is a space case on drugs.
So now I see. 1.2M Jews death don't matter to you? What kind of a believer are you? ROm 9-11 wants them in God's mission because they have some innate abilities and backgrounds.
You have no idea what you are talking about if you think the Jews went to the four corners when the DofJ occurred. Most of those who did not die became slaves on the Roman market.
Do history then theology.
So now I see. 1.2M Jews death don't matter to you? What kind of a believer are you? ROm 9-11 wants them in God's mission because they have some innate abilities and backgrounds.
You have no idea what you are talking about if you think the Jews went to the four corners when the DofJ occurred. Most of those who did not die became slaves on the Roman market.
Do history then theology.
Cross Reference
New member
Get saved and cry out to God for His understanding.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You have no idea, sir.
To be saved is to embrace Rom 3:21-26 as the truth. What are you talking about...on an exclusively Christian theology site, no less? You never explain anything.
To be saved is to embrace Rom 3:21-26 as the truth. What are you talking about...on an exclusively Christian theology site, no less? You never explain anything.
Cross Reference
New member
To one ingrained in error, it is not possible. Why waste my time just to have it mis-represented by you as the only way you can 'guide' your way out for your lack of understanding.. You have proven sufficiently you have no foundation upon which to understand God's word. Sorry but, the scholarly approach is no approach. You will never come to knowledge with that being your way. If you were born again, you would know that.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Nonsense. What exactly? You're too general and all you do is hate and despise. You don't have any thing to assert in hundreds of posts. You don't even bulldoze me with what you have that is sooooo superior and clear.
iamaberean
New member
No clue. We can not say with certainty what the fullness of the gentiles is, and when it is full.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The fullness or times of the Gentiles is one of two major periods from the understanding of Judaism at the time of the 1st century. They knew it was about to begin, but they thought it meant their taking the law to the nations. We find a trace of this in Mt 23 which Jesus despised. Because he meant for the Gospel to be taken and for the whole thing to have an entirely new feel.
The whole rest of history once this starts is the times of the nations. It was not a "parenthesis" in their understanding; it was what was supposed to happen once Messiah came. But the mysterious thing needed to be un-hidden, Eph 3:5-6. That myterious thing was that the whole redemptive effort of God was going forward through the Gospel (the key phrase in those verses) not through the Law. This is why Judaizers who champion the Law are such a bane to Paul, constant friction, persecution. They are trying to fulfill the Judaistic messianic dream which is embedded in the Law rather than the Gospel.
The idea here is not that there is an end to this and then more things are done to or with or through Israel. This was the end phase of history, because it was Messiah's age. The blinder that tripped up Israel so badly was the embedded Law, especially how they approached it after exile. Most of the features of the Messianic age are not that far removed from them, but they defined everything in terms of the Law. (This, btw, made it inflammatory when Christ said he was the Manna from heaven, because by this time Judaism believed the Law was the thing the Manna pictured.)
The whole rest of history once this starts is the times of the nations. It was not a "parenthesis" in their understanding; it was what was supposed to happen once Messiah came. But the mysterious thing needed to be un-hidden, Eph 3:5-6. That myterious thing was that the whole redemptive effort of God was going forward through the Gospel (the key phrase in those verses) not through the Law. This is why Judaizers who champion the Law are such a bane to Paul, constant friction, persecution. They are trying to fulfill the Judaistic messianic dream which is embedded in the Law rather than the Gospel.
The idea here is not that there is an end to this and then more things are done to or with or through Israel. This was the end phase of history, because it was Messiah's age. The blinder that tripped up Israel so badly was the embedded Law, especially how they approached it after exile. Most of the features of the Messianic age are not that far removed from them, but they defined everything in terms of the Law. (This, btw, made it inflammatory when Christ said he was the Manna from heaven, because by this time Judaism believed the Law was the thing the Manna pictured.)
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andyc
New member
Hi Psalmist
I kinda feel that the anti Christ has to be revealed as per what Paul explained. Then it gets interesting.
Godbless you and wife!
Andy