JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[JudgeRightly]

I was responding to the JW site which was being picky. However, I often use Yeshua. That is probably what His contemporaries called him. Back in the days of the prophets, He would probably be called Yahoshua. This apparently got shortened to Yeshua after the diaspora. Why does it matter? Because Jesus has no meaning. What does it mean? It is a made-up word formed by trying to convert the name into Greek and then later adding an English J sound. I think Yeshua would have been better served by transliterating the name into Greek, but this is not what Jerome did. If it weren't for Jerome, I imagine Gentiles would be calling Jesus, Joshua. Yahoshua means God/Yah saves. It is also important to prophecy as to who is saying what to whom. In deference to my Savior I have often begun using Yeshua. It's a word that has meaning.

Funnily enough...

Every Greek letter is also a number.

IESOUS adds up to 888.

8 is the number for ressurrection, regeneration, and a new beginning.
8 turned on its side is the character for infinity.
3 is the number for God's sovereignty. kgov.com/three
Three 8s indicates the three persons of the Trinity, being eternal.

 

[freelight]

Elohim is plural in manifestation, yet One in essence and Being.......

Elohim is plural in manifestation, yet One in essence and Being.......

There any number of New Testament verses that can be referenced for the Trinity (Acts 20:28 KJV ; Matthew 28:19 KJV ; 2nd Corinthians 13:14 KJV ; 1st Peter 1:2 KJV), but the correct succinct answer to your question is that He teaches us still today, and He last revised the expression He uses to teach us in 1994, with the promulgation of Pope Saint John Paul's new Catechism of the Catholic Church, and later on with Pope Benedict's Compendium to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Note that beyond Matthew 28:19, a controversial passage and questioned by some, the 'Trinity' is but conceptually assumed in those other passages, and they don't necessarily prove a Deity named 'YHWH' is a 'trinity', and that this conceived 'trinity' is the being named 'YHWH'. Its 'assumed'.

Some have a bone to pick with Matt. 28:19 being an interpolation later added, whereas other accountings of Jesus commission (such as by EEusebius) have him saying to go forth to preach and baptize 'in his name', and not necessarily the Trinitarian baptismal formula per se. See Brother Kel's article on this particular passage here.

The 'Trinity' as conceptualized by orthodox Christians is but an optional concept of the 'Godhead', while the traditional monotheistic Unitarian view of Deity still holds its fundamental ground, no matter how one 'compounds' the unity of the One True God, whether that be via personalities or forms,....metaphysically all comes back to the primal essence from which all substance and form derives,...and that is the Infinite One Spirit Itself....who is Deity Alone....who is the Originator and Creator of all, standing relationally to all creation as The Universal Father.

As far as the 'Catechisms' of the Catholic Church goes, that is their own creation, laws, terms and orders of doctrine. Whether there is any religious value or eternal truth shared in such writings is a matter for the Spirit of God to discern in the human mind and heart....and teach the soul thereby. This goes for any religious cult, sect, school, tradition or denomination,...each soul is responsible to learn truth and wisdom for himself, in his religious or philosophic studies and research.

While some truth may be held in some form or substance in a particular religious sect or tradition, no one religious organization can be the sole arbiter or dispenser of truth, since no one 'cult' has a monopoly on the Infinite, neither can it contain the whole or totality of 'Spirit', whose effulgence is always continually pouring out progressive revelation anyways.

All that is essential is to know Jesus is the Anointed Messenger (Angel of Great Counsel), Agent, Prophet, Voice, Professor and Revealer of the Father to humanity, and because He has been 'begotten', 'appointed' and 'anointed' to this rank and position in the hierarchy of heaven and earth,...he so reigns and ministers as both 'Lord' and 'Messiah', to the glory of the Father. The Son at last hands all things over to the Father, who is his head and his 'God'....so that 'God' may be all in all.

"even so, as the waters cover the sea, so shall the knowledge of the glory of the Spirit fill the earth"

 

[NWL]

I was responding to the JW site which was being picky. However, I often use Yeshua. That is probably what His contemporaries called him. Back in the days of the prophets, He would probably be called Yahoshua. This apparently got shortened to Yeshua after the diaspora. Why does it matter? Because Jesus has no meaning. What does it mean? It is a made-up word formed by trying to convert the name into Greek and then later adding an English J sound. I think Yeshua would have been better served by transliterating the name into Greek, but this is not what Jerome did. If it weren't for Jerome, I imagine Gentiles would be calling Jesus, Joshua. Yahoshua means God/Yah saves. It is also important to prophecy as to who is saying what to whom. In deference to my Savior I have often begun using Yeshua. It's a word that has meaning.

That's the thing JW's in general are not picky, we recognise that the name Jehovah is the more common name of God and that is the only reason it is used more widely than Yahweh or any other translation of the name.

You state you often use Yeshua but I find that very hard to believe, in almost every post I've seen of yours you use the name "Jesus", even as far back as 2015. To your friends family or fellow Christians do you use the name Yeshua? I again would find that hard to believe, since, the average Christian doesn't know Jesus name is a translation of Yeshua, so you would be met with blank faces if you did so. 99% of the time Christians use the name Jesus for Jesus, why, because its the more common use of the name.

Thus, to bring up the argument that Jehovah is not the proper translation whilst using the name Jesus is hypocritical and inconsistent.

I can't deny that you're not starting to use Yeshua over Jesus, but again, I find it extremely hard to believe,I find it very convenient that you're "starting to" use that name.

 

[RevTestament]

That's the thing JW's in general are not picky, we recognise that the name Jehovah is the more common name of God and that is the only reason it is used more widely than Yahweh or any other translation of the name.

You state you often use Yeshua but I find that very hard to believe, in almost every post I've seen of yours you use the name "Jesus", even as far back as 2015. To your friends family or fellow Christians do you use the name Yeshua? I again would find that hard to believe, since, the average Christian doesn't know Jesus name is a translation of Yeshua, so you would be met with blank faces if you did so. 99% of the time Christians use the name Jesus for Jesus, why, because its the more common use of the name.

Thus, to bring up the argument that Jehovah is not the proper translation whilst using the name Jesus is hypocritical and inconsistent.

I can't deny that you're not starting to use Yeshua over Jesus, but again, I find it extremely hard to believe,I find it very convenient that you're "starting to" use that name.

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. It is a new thing I have started doing in threads over the last year, because that is when I learned the importance of the name. So it is my effort to respect my Savior. I'm sorry if that causes you doubt - enough that you would go back and check my posts. LOL. Or call me hypocritical. Yeah, you won't see it here on TOL. I basically have left TOL. You will notice all the links in my signature are dead. A mod systematically removed all my threads - even one I didn't start. I have less than a quarter of the posts I once did, and I got tired of other foolishness. So I don't plan to come back to TOL. It's the same old, same old, and in the long run I haven't found it a useful use of my time. Right now I feel the Lord is leading my efforts elsewhere. Good day.

 

[daqq]

I basically have left TOL. You will notice all the links in my signature are dead. A mod systematically removed all my threads - even one I didn't start. I have less than a quarter of the posts I once did, and I got tired of other foolishness. So I don't plan to come back to TOL. It's the same old, same old, and in the long run I haven't found it a useful use of my time. Right now I feel the Lord is leading my efforts elsewhere. Good day.

Sorry to hear that old friend, even though we disagree on much, (and it seems even more so now), I have enjoyed conversing with you.

 

[freelight]

Not Quite......

Not Quite......

To be blunt, that is

BLASPHEMY™

Far from it,...first address the OP and other posts in the thread challenging this 'assumption'. In the context of most traditional orthodox monotheistic Unitarians, as Jews traditionally are,....YHWH is the Eternal Father of the Messiah-Son, the Messiah-Son is not YHWH, no matter how you spiritually mix or merge them together,...the Messiah-Son is always the Angel/Agent of the Invisible 'God', who is incorporeal Spirit, and the Father of all things and beings. You may have arrived a little late to the thread,...so might need to catch up

 

[freelight]

"because I say so" doesnt always cut the cake

"because I say so" doesnt always cut the cake

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

He is God, brother lain:

So was Moses, various angels of YHWH, various judges/leaders of God's people and the Messiah also RE-PRESENTS 'elohim'. Jesus did some schooling on this in the gospel of John by quoting Psalm 82 - He further claimed only to be the SON of God, as verified by divine revelation by Peter as well, for Peter got his revelation of WHO Jesus was from heaven. Or maybe he was off?

 

[RevTestament]

Sorry to hear that old friend, even though we disagree on much, (and it seems even more so now), I have enjoyed conversing with you.

Thank you Daqq. I have enjoyed it too. You are an interesting character. You are also knowledgeable. It probably won't be the last you'll hear of me, but I don't think I will try to attract any traffic to TOL after what I experienced.

 

[RevTestament]

So was Moses, various angels of YHWH, various judges/leaders of God's people and the Messiah also RE-PRESENTS 'elohim'. Jesus did some schooling on this in the gospel of John by quoting Psalm 82 - He further claimed only to be the SON of God, as verified by divine revelation by Peter as well, for Peter got his revelation of WHO Jesus was from heaven. Or maybe he was off?

Hey there Freelight. Thought I'd give some parting words...
There is no indication that Moses is El Elyon, the Most High Power. I'm sure he is elohim, because he was one of the greatest of the 144,000 prophets of Rev 7. A great many Jews are elohim see Psalms 82, but that is just being invited into the house of God as a son or daughter - as family of the house - gods in English parlance. However elohim is not the same as YHWH or EL Elyon. Cheers

 

[freelight]

OMNIPRESENCE.......

OMNIPRESENCE.......

Hey there Freelight. Thought I'd give some parting words...
There is no indication that Moses is El Elyon, the Most High Power. I'm sure he is elohim, because he was one of the greatest of the 144,000 prophets of Rev 7. A great many Jews are elohim see Psalms 82, but that is just being invited into the house of God as a son or daughter - as family of the house - gods in English parlance. However elohim is not the same as YHWH or EL Elyon. Cheers

Hi Rev,

Its all good,...since 'God' is the source of all, and is all in all anyways Its all One Infinity of Spirit, Energy, Consciousness, exploring creation in space, time and matter. When you dive down into the pure metaphysics of it all,...one primordial essence IS,...amid an infinity of multiple forms, ideas, conceptions and dispensations....that's all that is going on,....an innermergence of pure energy!

One Universal Reality IS, and that is ALL that IS

I could follow along and differentiate, pick, distinguish, compare and contrast all the differences within Awareness that 'appears' to exist in relativity, but will leave it BE at this moment, just to enjoy The ONE Being

In-joy!

 

[freelight]

Let 'God' be God,...without denominating.......

Let 'God' be God,...without denominating.......

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. It is a new thing I have started doing in threads over the last year, because that is when I learned the importance of the name. So it is my effort to respect my Savior. I'm sorry if that causes you doubt - enough that you would go back and check my posts. LOL. Or call me hypocritical. Yeah, you won't see it here on TOL. I basically have left TOL. You will notice all the links in my signature are dead. A mod systematically removed all my threads - even one I didn't start. I have less than a quarter of the posts I once did, and I got tired of other foolishness. So I don't plan to come back to TOL. It's the same old, same old, and in the long run I haven't found it a useful use of my time. Right now I feel the Lord is leading my efforts elsewhere. Good day.

Just to add my 'tidbit' here

We are the ones assigning 'names' to 'God', when a higher transcendence of Being exists that is actually beyond 'name', beyond 'words'. Not against names,..but just saying. LIFE goes on, whether you 'name' IT anything or not, choose any 'God' or 'Goddess' to worship as you please. There are a lot of 'forms' to choose from,....knock yourself out.

The name of 'Jesus' is just the same,....call him as you like. Since most are familiar with 'Jesus',...that is the 'ID-tag' most 'christians' have for that particular 'personality',...and who knows how much of their 'imagination' about this 'personality' is even in accord to reality? (whether 'historical' or 'mythical'). How much of our entertainment of 'God' is just a product of our own imagination, which is but an individualized expression of mind-stuff anyways? Its all the same 'goop', no matter what form or appearance it takes, or what names we assign those particulars (personal or impersonal).

As far as 'treatment' on TOL of us more eccentric or heretical posters (join the club ), water off a ducks back,..I've held my own here for years, and will continue to be FREE to share my ideas, thoughts, concepts and vision, since that is what trailblazers, free spirits and heretics do, since we dare to THINK for ourselves (see the real meaning of 'heresy'). They wont shut me up until I am permanently BANNED or just LEAVE. Heaven has more things in store, but bloom where put down your roots. Infinity has no end, nor can it be contained, defined or contracted totally by what is finite. And it goes without saying, "you cant put 'God' in a box". It is utterly impossible to limit, contain, contract or monopolize INFINITY, utterly. 'God' is Spirit, no matter one's assumption of substance, matter, personality or form...which are but derived from SPIRIT.

If you feel the 'Lord'(your highest innermost spiritual desire/motivation) is leading you elsewhere, then by golly follow your heart's GUIDANCE. We've had some interesting interactions here as well, with our familiar background in Mormonism, and variable points of view on particulars, while on a higher level I find a lot of 'theology' just so much mind molasses. "Where the Spirit of YHWH is,....there (in that God-consciousness) is liberty" - they who live in that RADIANCE are already free. - all else is an adventure in relativity, difference, duality, multiplicity and so on. Its all 'maya' (illusions) of form and appearance anyways,...while only one universal essence and more fundamental substances behind those forms remains, only to undergo transformation and CHANGE. Infinite Intelligence is what is guiding, directing and coordinating all, in all dimensions of space and time, which is what we little individualized units of consciousness, call 'experience'. This is all we know, our own existence, and whatever we 'relate' with or to, in that existence. 'God' as a subject/object/personality is another matter, however we RELATE to He, She or IT....again,...its a matter of our own 'denomination', isn't it?

Anyways,....as some may see, I'm riding a new cosmic influx and enjoying the RIDE, despite what dogmatists and religious bigots say about anything, because 'God' gives me that right, by heavens decree. I'm also quite aware that there are other forums out there to indulge and engage, but 'God' has me here NOW (I guess its predestined ha!) Just to add some ethereal spice to the MIX,...I've been enjoying some psy-trance music as of late. For those wanting to expand inner journeys in space a bit, enjoy this mix -

Sorry for dovetailing the thread folks.....but sometimes a break from "church as usual" is refreshing.

 

[Zeke]

Just to add my 'tidbit' here

We are the ones assigning 'names' to 'God', when a higher transcendence of Being exists that is actually beyond 'name', beyond 'words'. Not against names,..but just saying. LIFE goes on, whether you 'name' IT anything or not, choose any 'God' or 'Goddess' to worship as you please. There are a lot of 'forms' to choose from,....knock yourself out.

The name of 'Jesus' is just the same,....call him as you like. Since most are familiar with 'Jesus',...that is the 'ID-tag' most 'christians' have for that particular 'personality',...and who knows how much of their 'imagination' about this 'personality' is even in accord to reality? (whether 'historical' or 'mythical'). How much of our entertainment of 'God' is just a product of our own imagination, which is but an individualized expression of mind-stuff anyways? Its all the same 'goop', no matter what form or appearance it takes, or what names we assign those particulars (personal or impersonal).

As far as 'treatment' on TOL of us more eccentric or heretical posters (join the club ), water off a ducks back,..I've held my own here for years, and will continue to be FREE to share my ideas, thoughts, concepts and vision, since that is what trailblazers, free spirits and heretics do, since we dare to THINK for ourselves (see the real meaning of 'heresy'). They wont shut me up until I am permanently BANNED or just LEAVE. Heaven has more things in store, but bloom where put down your roots. Infinity has no end, nor can it be contained, defined or contracted totally by what is finite. And it goes without saying, "you cant put 'God' in a box". It is utterly impossible to limit, contain, contract or monopolize INFINITY, utterly. 'God' is Spirit, no matter one's assumption of substance, matter, personality or form...which are but derived from SPIRIT.

If you feel the 'Lord'(your highest innermost spiritual desire/motivation) is leading you elsewhere, then by golly follow your heart's GUIDANCE. We've had some interesting interactions here as well, with our familiar background in Mormonism, and variable points of view on particulars, while on a higher level I find a lot of 'theology' just so much mind molasses. "Where the Spirit of YHWH is,....there (in that God-consciousness) is liberty" - they who live in that RADIANCE are already free. - all else is an adventure in relativity, difference, duality, multiplicity and so on. Its all 'maya' (illusions) of form and appearance anyways,...while only one universal essence and more fundamental substances behind those forms remains, only to undergo transformation and CHANGE. Infinite Intelligence is what is guiding, directing and coordinating all, in all dimensions of space and time, which is what we little individualized units of consciousness, call 'experience'. This is all we know, our own existence, and whatever we 'relate' with or to, in that existence. 'God' as a subject/object/personality is another matter, however we RELATE to He, She or IT....again,...its a matter of our own 'denomination', isn't it?

Anyways,....as some may see, I'm riding a new cosmic influx and enjoying the RIDE, despite what dogmatists and religious bigots say about anything, because 'God' gives me that right, by heavens decree. I'm also quite aware that there are other forums out there to indulge and engage, but 'God' has me here NOW (I guess its predestined ha!) Just to add some ethereal spice to the MIX,...I've been enjoying some psy-trance music as of late. For those wanting to expand inner journeys in space a bit, enjoy this mix -

Sorry for dovetailing the thread folks.....but sometimes a break from "church as usual" is refreshing.

The multiple mask being worn in the finite worlds perception of things is still the one Spirit that has left its former glory to experience the mortal minds maze of good and evil 2Tim 2:13,Acts 17:27-28, Luke 17:20-21, so we are battling or loving ourselves during this false perception of separation, some really good acting going on Psalm 139:8.

 

[Zeke]

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. It is a new thing I have started doing in threads over the last year, because that is when I learned the importance of the name. So it is my effort to respect my Savior. I'm sorry if that causes you doubt - enough that you would go back and check my posts. LOL. Or call me hypocritical. Yeah, you won't see it here on TOL. I basically have left TOL. You will notice all the links in my signature are dead. A mod systematically removed all my threads - even one I didn't start. I have less than a quarter of the posts I once did, and I got tired of other foolishness. So I don't plan to come back to TOL. It's the same old, same old, and in the long run I haven't found it a useful use of my time. Right now I feel the Lord is leading my efforts elsewhere. Good day.

 

[freelight]

Nose dive into Nothingness......

Nose dive into Nothingness......

The multiple mask being worn in the finite worlds perception of things is still the one Spirit that has left its former glory to experience the mortal minds maze of good and evil 2Tim 2:13,Acts 17:27-28, Luke 17:20-21, so we are battling or loving ourselves during this false perception of separation, some really good acting going on Psalm 139:8.

Yes, as touched on previously....the absolute reality, call it 'God' or 'Deity' is a Spirit-Presence that is OMNI. 'God' by definition is this, whether you 'personalize' the Deity or NOT. What is, IS.

Now as far as Jesus being YHWH,....you can call, label, assign, or assume anything. The answer given will depend on who you ask. - and even if you ask 'God',...well...since no one can be certain their answer is being given by 'God' (whoever or whatever it is)...then its but one point of view, among an infinitude of others. The tetragrammaton is but a curious code-word for that original power or presence that causes all things "to be" or "brings all things into existence", so it may not even qualify as a 'name' per se,...but an acronym. 'YHWH' if designated as real 'God', is that which permeates all things and beings, by its own omnipresence, however you metaphysically describe that omnipresence. In that sense we are all a part of YHWH, and a part of YHWH is in each living unit of consciousness, that animating presence that enlivens all personalities (egos).

The whole hoopla about people assuming Jesus is a 'God' within a 'Godhead', instead of just recognizing that Jesus re-presents 'God' is but an optional construct, of whose value one wonders, just so long as we recognize that a loving Father-Deity actually SENT Jesus to us, for some reason that only the Spirit of truth can reveal, and its ultimately a matter of personal 'gnosis' that avails for anything as far as 'real knowledge' of anything goes anyways :idunno:

In the meantime in cyberland,....a Unitarian view is just as good if not better than a Trinitarian one, but then again ...that depends on who you ask. Who cares? but he who might have a vested interest in the subject. If we were to drop the discussion and the significance of these matters faded into a vacuum,...what would come of it? At current, the reality of LIFE itself, as Being, the "I" that I AM as this present Awareness...is all that is. Therefore, I'm taking a nose-dive into the ethers currently, and just bagging the whole thing, letting 'God' be 'God', since reality is already what it IS...beyond any slight modification or reformatting that I can provide as one point of view among so many others. Is such a view apathetic, uncaring, unreligious? I don't know,....but maybe more responsible than it sounds, accepting 'agnosis' (not knowing) where that pertains, and 'gnosis' (experiential knowledge) as being that which I experience in any religious or spiritual sense.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

 

[Nihilo]

Yes, as touched on previously....the absolute reality, call it 'God' or 'Deity' is a Spirit-Presence that is OMNI. 'God' by definition is this, whether you 'personalize' the Deity or NOT. What is, IS.

Now as far as Jesus being YHWH,....you can call, label, assign, or assume anything. The answer given will depend on who you ask. - and even if you ask 'God',...well...since no one can be certain their answer is being given by 'God' (whoever or whatever it is)...then its but one point of view, among an infinitude of others. The tetragrammaton is but a curious code-word for that original power or presence that causes all things "to be" or "brings all things into existence", so it may not even qualify as a 'name' per se,...but an acronym. 'YHWH' if designated as real 'God', is that which permeates all things and beings, by its own omnipresence, however you metaphysically describe that omnipresence. In that sense we are all a part of YHWH, and a part of YHWH is in each living unit of consciousness, that animating presence that enlivens all personalities (egos).

The whole hoopla about people assuming Jesus is a 'God' within a 'Godhead', instead of just recognizing that Jesus re-presents 'God' is but an optional construct, of whose value one wonders, just so long as we recognize that a loving Father-Deity actually SENT Jesus to us, for some reason that only the Spirit of truth can reveal, and its ultimately a matter of personal 'gnosis' that avails for anything as far as 'real knowledge' of anything goes anyways :idunno:

In the meantime in cyberland,....a Unitarian view is just as good if not better than a Trinitarian one, but then again ...that depends on who you ask. Who cares? but he who might have a vested interest in the subject. If we were to drop the discussion and the significance of these matters faded into a vacuum,...what would come of it? At current, the reality of LIFE itself, as Being, the "I" that I AM as this present Awareness...is all that is. Therefore, I'm taking a nose-dive into the ethers currently, and just bagging the whole thing, letting 'God' be 'God', since reality is already what it IS...beyond any slight modification or reformatting that I can provide as one point of view among so many others. Is such a view apathetic, uncaring, unreligious? I don't know,....but maybe more responsible than it sounds, accepting 'agnosis' (not knowing) where that pertains, and 'gnosis' (experiential knowledge) as being that which I experience in any religious or spiritual sense.

Not everything's random. If there is a God, He is in charge (that's the same as not everything's random). What has He done, to this point?
If there is no God, then everything's random, and we're where we're at, because of chance.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Empire of dirt

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Then there's this.....

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

OH YEAH, marriage is between a man and woman.

 

[freelight]

Determined paths and random factors..............

Determined paths and random factors..............

Not everything's random. If there is a God, He is in charge (that's the same as not everything's random). What has He done, to this point?
If there is no God, then everything's random, and we're where we're at, because of chance.

All that is going on, is a relatioinal exchange of thought, energy, will, intention, choice....that is as long as there is a conscious intelligence directing or determining anything anywhere at anytime - I don't think I've ever denied that an Infinite Intelligence that we call 'God' is at the very HEART of all that is, since nothing can exist on its own, independent from the First Source and Center of all, who is The Universal Father.

But while you bring up the element of 'chance' or 'randomness'....studies in physics shows that there are these elements existing within certain segments of space and time, no matter how well ordained or predetermined anything might be. I bring this up to show that there is an element of 'creative mystery' and 'randomness' of movement within the great cosmic matrix,...some 'unknowables' if you will. (therefore some aspects of reality may be conditional). This 'knowledge' is modified by free will as it acts within space, thru 'time' (involving potentials and they unfold and become actuals, etc.) But this gits into other fields, perhaps beyond the kin of this thread