JESUS IS NOT YHWH
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Absolute Omnipresence........
Absolute Omnipresence........
Indeed,...there is One Universal Father-Mother-God (Spirit-essence), from which all things and beings derive their existence IF they are in any way "begotten" or individualized
- In this understanding we definitely respect and worship the Father-ing PRESENCE who begets and brings all things/beings into being. - all else is 'word play', but go ahead and enjoy!
The Invisible One is always the Generator, and eternal Parent of all extensions of Itself, such is the law of Creation in the play of space and time, which is Life engaging the experience of Itself.
The SON ever points us to the generating power and majesty of the Mother-Light, while all language is but symbolic code pointing the mind to the original Consciousness in which all springs. That AWARENESS is the primal reality and Source of all perception/knowledge/experience.
And that folks is All there IS
Besides the Universal ONE, there is no 'other'. Mono Theos Omni Ultima
Absolute Omnipresence........
Indeed,...there is One Universal Father-Mother-God (Spirit-essence), from which all things and beings derive their existence IF they are in any way "begotten" or individualized
- In this understanding we definitely respect and worship the Father-ing PRESENCE who begets and brings all things/beings into being. - all else is 'word play', but go ahead and enjoy! The Invisible One is always the Generator, and eternal Parent of all extensions of Itself, such is the law of Creation in the play of space and time, which is Life engaging the experience of Itself.
The SON ever points us to the generating power and majesty of the Mother-Light, while all language is but symbolic code pointing the mind to the original Consciousness in which all springs. That AWARENESS is the primal reality and Source of all perception/knowledge/experience.
And that folks is All there IS
Besides the Universal ONE, there is no 'other'. Mono Theos Omni Ultima
Zeke
Well-known member
So you must be the Father or the son then because only they know each other.
Zeke
Well-known member
The invisible resurrection isn't seen or heard by this world Luke 17:20-21. Its best is the least in that kingdom Matt 11:11.
The fact that you put words in my mouth only confirms what I said.
His face is scared and cut up with Living Oracles:
His earlets were opened, and his hands and feet pierced, and nailed to the trees of life:
"He that has seen me has seen the Father", (John 14:9)
If you look intently you may see the Son:
The Son is in the bosom of the Father at His right hand side.
Ι̅H – Ια Ηλωιμ (see Mar 15:34) – Yah Elohim (Ruach Elohim – Gen 1:2, Psa 68:18, Mat 3:16, Rom 8:9)
And yet I know he lives; for he is right here with me in the house, teaching me every day.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Frogs are kittens and kittens are frogs
Zeke
Well-known member
The fact that you put words in my mouth only confirms what I said.
His face is scared and cut up with Living Oracles:
His earlets were opened, and his hands and feet pierced, and nailed to the trees of life:
And yet I know he lives; for he is right here with me in the house, teaching me every day.
That teacher is all things to people as well, enjoy you're house guest.
Just a snippet, but thought to throw a little spice into the pot
On both ends of a spectrum, or somewhere in the kaladioscope, it becomes a matter of terms and meanings lost in translation or redefined/re-arranged,...so that no matter how you slice or dice it,...Jesus is both NOT Yahweh and IS Yahweh (his representative and/or representation), choose whatever view floats your boat, from more fundamental Unitarian or Trinitarian perspectives, and all views inbetween and beyond. (knock yourself out).
I don't think 'Real God' is so concerned about a conceptual theorem or fine tuned 'Christological formula' as he is your inward spiritual development, character and quality of being that you can be, in your communion with Him, in service to life. That might be a fundamental issue one considers in their 'theology'...for starters.
All this is still an adventure, an exploration of Universal MIND engaging in an infinite unfolding of itself in space and time (There is one primal Consciousness, ever inter-preting itself thru a matrix of concepts). Jesus is ever the image (logos), reflection, representation, expression, extension, form, revelation, of 'God', which is the Universal Father-Source, the origin and Progenitor of all. Nothing surpasses the Primacy of the Universal Father, no-thing or no-one, no matter how close in nature, character or substance a
'begotten' being is to the Begetter. Out of the Original Infinite Essence of DEITY, all is derived, born, created, brought into existence. These first principles hold, even from a theosophical perspective.
We further remind readers of the concept of 'agency', which the Messiah-Son serves in his divine capacity, AS he serves as God's AGENT. ('God' is the source of all power, identity, agency, authority, knowledge, personality, etc.) :thumb: - the 'agent' of the 'Sender' goes forth with the power and authority of the 'Sender', anointed by the Sender's Spirit, a 7-fold anointing.
No matter how you humanize or deify the person of Jesus, he is still Yahweh's AGENT, his anointed messenger, prophet, the one who reveals 'God'.
Ehrman seems not to be capable of utterly refuting Bass, (who makes the same argument as many of the Oneness and the MADists around these parts), simply because Ehrman apparently does not realize that YAH is also rendered as both Theos and Kurios, (even Kurios anarthrous), in the Septuagint. It goes back to ancient Hebrew using the waw-vav as both a letter and a word separator because there was no word spacing, ("scriptura continua" form, just as Uncial Koine Greek). This is clearly the case in many places in the Septuagint, especially in Genesis, where the Tetragrammaton Name is separated at the waw-vav.
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He is not just a guest but has taken up permanent residence since the day the Seed sprouted.
Isaiah 45:23-24 KJV
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD [Tetragrammaton - Masorete Hebrew Text] have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
The theory from Bass and those of like mind falls apart when the fact is brought to light that Paul quotes from the Septuagint. The English translations of the above passage are not reading the Hebrew text in the same way that both the translators of the Septuagint and Paul read it, (because the Masoretes chose not to view the waw-vav in this instance as a word separator, while those who rendered the Greek Septuagint did indeed; and therefore they render it as Yah | (which results in τω θεω in this instance because of the surrounding context)).
Esaias 45:23-24 Septuagint (Benton English Translation)
23 By myself I swear, righteousness shall surely proceed out of my mouth; my words shall not be frustrated; (45:24) that to me every knee shall bend, and every tongue shall swear by God,
24 saying, Righteousness and glory shall come to him: and all that remove them from their borders shall be ashamed.
Esaias 45:23 LXX-Septuagint
23 κατ εμαυτου ομνυω η μην εξελευσεται εκ του στοματος μου δικαιοσυνη οι λογοι μου ουκ αποστραφησονται οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και εξομολογησεται πασα γλωσσα τω θεω
Romans 14:11 W/H
11 γεγραπται γαρ ζω εγω λεγει κυριος οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και πασα γλωσσα εξομολογησεται τω θεω
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:freak:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Not so fast......
Not so fast......
Readers can see our previous dialogue and judge for themselves :thumb:
The resurrection is spiritual in nature, and the kingdom is within, no matter if such transformation includes visible changes or not. Just as Jesus says, those born of the Spirit are born from above, yet we cannot tell visibly its source or direction, but can recognize its effects.
If you are focused on some assumed physical resurrection as an event in time, and worship it, you may bypass the real meaning of such as it translates inwardly.
On an another level, the 'resurrection' merely refers to the soul rising from the physical body discarded at death into the spirit world, while the "putting on of immortality" is another matter altogether. That is a gift of God given to those who so choose it.
Not so fast......
Readers can see our previous dialogue and judge for themselves :thumb:
The resurrection is spiritual in nature, and the kingdom is within, no matter if such transformation includes visible changes or not. Just as Jesus says, those born of the Spirit are born from above, yet we cannot tell visibly its source or direction, but can recognize its effects.
If you are focused on some assumed physical resurrection as an event in time, and worship it, you may bypass the real meaning of such as it translates inwardly.
On an another level, the 'resurrection' merely refers to the soul rising from the physical body discarded at death into the spirit world, while the "putting on of immortality" is another matter altogether. That is a gift of God given to those who so choose it.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I haven't watched the whole debate yet between Ehrman and Bass. Ehrman still has the upper hand in recognizing that Jesus is not YHWH, even if the word 'lord' is rendered as 'kurios' or the 'tetragrammaton'. Jesus is still the AGENT of 'God', and always will be.
As I've shared before, it is totally unnecessary for one to assume Jesus is YHWH, but one may choose to believe what they will. Jesus has attributes that are both human and divine, since God is his Father, but the concept of 'agency' is an important principle here.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Zeke
Well-known member
Galatians 4:1, being a heir of the Divine yet later needing adoption Galatians 4:5 is a oxymoron, to me, the symbol of a Son be it flesh or spirit is a temporal state, if we are to remain Sons forever without reaching maturity of are parents status then the Son of God analogy breaks down and should be called a creation like Frankenstein, not the off spring of God.
Fronkenschteen
Zeke
Well-known member
You're right. Readers can just read below, and judge for themselves.
Thank you for providing the clarity.Thank you again.
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