Jesus is God !

[freelight]

Holy roses................

Holy roses................

After all of that information in the first section I cannot fathom how you might think your former statements still hold water, (concerning where it is written that Messiah would rise in the third day according to the Scriptures).

My former commentary does still hold, since there is no recognized official orthodox Jewish teaching or tradition of the Messiah arising from the dead on the 3rd day, although one can allegorize one passage of a 3rd day 'rising', but the context here is speaking of Isreal or a community as a whole (in Hosea).

In addition to all of those things it is written that when the Father brings again the Prototokos (Yisrael) into the Land, He says: Let the heavens rejoice together with him, and let all the angels of Elohim bow in honor to him: let the nations rejoice with his people, and let all the angels of Elohim be strengthened in him; for the blood of the sons thereof he shall avenge, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him, and YHWH shall thoroughly cleanse the Land of His people." Therefore Elohim Yisrael is the only Sar strengthening his fellows, (cf. Daniel 10:21 YLT).

Okay, but I don't see what this is specifically relating to, especially regarding Michael. In any case, nothing about a 3rd day resurrection of an 'anointed one'

Ah well, I tried, but we probably do agree on much though it seems there is some difference in our usage of the word "God". You appear to mean THE ONLY GOD, (which I say is the Father YHWH) while the Scripture uses "Elohim", (God) in a much broader application.

I use the word or term 'God' in its most essential, universal, metaphysical sense....who is pure Spirit, primal Awareness, Infinite Intelligence, Omnipresence. In this sense,....as I've engaged B57,...my proposition that only 'God' is 'God' holds - see here (and follow all former commentary linked). - on this count the 'fun' is in challenging the specific claim that a particular person named 'Jesus' is 'God'(proper), when Jesus is his particular form is limited BY THAT FORM, as being the 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God',...it is a limitation by generation or creation, since a 'Son' is always the offspring of a 'Father', no matter how you might divinitize, mythologize or embellish the human character you're exalting. The Universal Father always maintains PRIMACY, hence only the Universal Father is the First Source and Center of all that exists,....as we use the term in the Urantia Papers.

I tried to rep you but it says I must spread some love around to others before reping you again! Anyways I once met someone else at another forum who used to greet with Namaste all the time; delightful person as I remember.

Awesome,...I am ever regularly repping others to keep the karmic wheel of good deeds and positive gestures flowing, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Love naturally flows that way. My religious studies and spiritual journey naturally aligns me with the great Vedic tradition and Indian culture, so that the blessing of 'namaste' flows from the heart, as the divine in me recognizes/honors and greets the divine you, which is essentially 'God' recognizing 'God', since when we see each other in the light of pure consciousness,...all there is....is 'God'. 'God' is the ever radiating LIGHT of Being, and my most essential Self(identity) is non-different from that eternal/infinite Source, as pure Spirit (original and all-permeating Awareness). Hence we say in the Vedic tradition, "I Am That",...there is no difference, separation from the 'atman' (soul) and 'God' ('Brahman'). 'God' looks out from you and me and recognizes himself...since there is no other 'Light' existing. Besides 'God' there is no 'other'. There is Only The Universal One, and this is the heart of non-duality, meaning "not two". 'God' who is One, is All There Is.

Anyways......'God' is the only one now reading these words,...remember...there is no 'other'!


Om shanti (divine peace),



pj

 

[Zeke]

Hello daqq,

I've debated Daniel1611 on the so called 'third-day' resurrection claim of Paul as being found in the OT scriptures, which remains only some vague symbolic reference to who knows what, beyond the passage in Hosea, which is about the resurrection of a 'people', not necessarily a 'person',.....consider the context there.

My previous posts also stand for any serious students of truth or religion on the important subjects pertaining...especially on topic of the 'claim' or 'belief' that "Jesus is God'",.....which is just that. I'm quite familiar with a number of religious sources or texts that grant Jesus some measure of 'divinity', amid the more mundane reality of his humanity, and how one 'mixes' up or 'confounds' the two elements is as good any other potpourri of doctrine, that suits the suitor. As the resident eclectic here, I have no problem with people 'building their own theology',....write your own gospel,...live your own truth

Is. 46:10 doesn't necessarily address my observation or 'claim' that the Messiah will die for the world's sins and be raised THE THIRD DAY, (and this 'according to the scriptures'), since it would be a miracle if you could find one orthodox Jew who believes or claims such a thing. - we might add they know their own 'scriptures' better than gentiles or another religious cult (so we assume), and lay hold to foundational traditional doctrines based from their holy writings concerning their Messiah. It appears anyone can use the term "according to the scriptures" to bolster their message...but does it stand up to research?

So,....Is 46:10 says 'God' has planned out some things to occur, and can do anything he wants, because after all,....there is no greater power or will existing, except what human free will might modify, condition or alter, but that's another subject :mario: Heaven forbid we open too many cans of worms, as just one can be messy enough


Injoy!



pj

Yet a spiritual Jew within would grasp the allegory of the third day representing something none observational to the carnal eyes happening in the kingdom of God just Like both Jesus/spirit and Paul teaches, Luke 17:20-21, 1Cor 3:16, which is also discerned from 2Cor 3:6 so Paul and Jesus were on the same allegorical path in scripture.

 

[keypurr]

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Suggest you read 1 Peter 1:3 to see that God and Jesus are not the same person. Jesus has a God, just as Peter tells you. That might open your mind to see the light of truth as now you are in darkness.

 

[StanJ]

Suggest you read 1 Peter 1:3 to see that God and Jesus are not the same person. Jesus has a God, just as Peter tells you. That might open your mind to see the light of truth as now you are in darkness.

Ignoring those scriptures, and deflecting as usual to another scripture that you THINK suits your POV is why you are so lost keypurr.
Are those scriptures lying? LORD in the NT when referring to Jesus, ALWAYS conveys God.
A blind person trying to tell others to see, as you continually do, is just as ludicrous as it sounds. Open your eyes and wake up from your apostate state.

 

[keypurr]

Ignoring those scriptures, and deflecting as usual to another scripture that you THINK suits your POV is why you are so lost keypurr.
Are those scriptures lying? LORD in the NT when referring to Jesus, ALWAYS conveys God.
A blind person trying to tell others to see, as you continually do, is just as ludicrous as it sounds. Open your eyes and wake up from your apostate state.

You ignore a lot of scripture.

Scripture does not lie, your interpretation does.

You need a seeing eye dog.

Jesus has a God, the only true God.

 

[daqq]

Okay, but I don't see what this is specifically relating to, especially regarding Michael. In any case, nothing about a 3rd day resurrection of an 'anointed one'

You did not continue reading past the exclamation point did you? :chuckle:

 

[StanJ]

You ignore a lot of scripture.
Scripture does not lie, your interpretation does.
You need a seeing eye dog.
Jesus has a God, the only true God.

 

[keypurr]

As I told you before, your a clanging symbol.

No verse for rebuttal.

Clang, clang

 

[StanJ]

As I told you before, your a clanging symbol.
No verse for rebuttal.
Clang, clang

 

[StanJ]

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

 

[keypurr]

again, YOU PROVE MY POINT.

 

[StanJ]

again, YOU PROVE MY POINT.

you have no point...you are lost and apostate.

 

[StanJ]

http://vintage.aomin.org/GRANVILL.html

 

[keypurr]

2 Peter 1:1

(ASV) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ:

(BBE) Simon Peter, a servant and Apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who with us have a part in the same holy faith in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:

(Bishops) Simon Peter, a seruaunt and an Apostle of Iesus Christe, to them which haue obteined lyke precious faith with vs, thorowe the ryghteousnes of our god and sauiour Iesus Christe:

(KJV) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

See hese also:

2 Peter 1:2

(ASV) Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

(BBE) May grace and peace ever be increasing in you, in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

(Bishops) Grace and peace be multiplied vnto you, through the knowledge of God, and of Iesus our Lorde:

(CEV) I pray that God will be kind to you and will let you live in perfect peace! May you keep learning more and more about God and our Lord Jesus.

(DRB) Grace to you and peace be accomplished in the knowledge of God and of Christ Jesus our Lord.

(ESV) May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(Geneva) Grace and peace be multiplied to you, through the acknowledging of God, and of Iesus our Lord,

(GNB) May grace and peace be yours in full measure through your knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(GW) May good will and peace fill your lives through your knowledge about Jesus, our God and Lord!

(ISV) May grace and peace be yours in abundance through the full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!

(KJV) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

(NAS77) Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

(NASB) Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;

(NIrV) May more and more grace and peace be given to you. May they come to you as you learn more about God and about Jesus our Lord.

(NIV) Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(NKJV) Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,

(NRSV) May grace and peace be yours in abundance in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(NRSVA) May grace and peace be yours in abundance in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(TNIV) Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

(YLT) Grace to you, and peace be multiplied in the acknowledgement of God and of Jesus our Lord!

 

[keypurr]

http://vintage.aomin.org/GRANVILL.html

Your problem is you read to many garbage sites, and you believe them.

 

[daqq]

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Please tell us all again mister wise grandmaster of Greek:

2 Peter 1:1 W/H 1881
ΣΙΜΩΝ ΠΕΤΡΟΣ δοῦλος καὶ ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ·
http://biblehub.com/text/2_peter/1-1.htm

IF THIS: "ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ"
IS THIS: "apostle of Jesus Christ"

WHY CAN THIS: "σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ"
NOT BE THIS: "Savior of Jesus Christ" ???

Psalm 22:7-24 KJV Restored Name
22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
22:8 He trusted on YHWH that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my El from my mother's belly.
22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not thou far from me, O YHWH: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
22:23 Ye that fear YHWH, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
http://yahushua.net/scriptures/psa022.htm

Can you see what Psalm 22:24 says within its context?
It says that when Yeshua cried out unto YHWH, He heard him.
Therefore by saving-delivering Yeshua the Father is The Savior.

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

Your problem is you read to many garbage sites, and you believe them.

Your very obvious problem is YOU think you know when you don't. There are MANY MANY MANY scholars who refute your false teaching keypurr.
Your ego rules you, NOT God.

 

[StanJ]

2 Peter 1:1

(ASV) Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ:

(BBE) Simon Peter, a servant and Apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who with us have a part in the same holy faith in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:

(Bishops) Simon Peter, a seruaunt and an Apostle of Iesus Christe, to them which haue obteined lyke precious faith with vs, thorowe the ryghteousnes of our god and sauiour Iesus Christe:

(KJV) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

All these versions were revised to show the PROPER rendering of the Greek.

(ASV is now NRSV)
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith as precious as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Nothing wrong with the BBE

Nothing wrong with them Bishops

(KJV is now NKJV)
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Your pathetic attempt and very obvious effort at prevarication is sad, but typical of your ilk.

DEAL with the verse itself keypurr. Exegete it. Read the Greek. Pick it apart. It says what it says. God and Jesus are ONE.

 

[StanJ]

Please tell us all again mister wise grandmaster of Greek:

2 Peter 1:1 W/H 1881
ΣΙΜΩΝ ΠΕΤΡΟΣ δοῦλος καὶ ἀπόστολος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ·
http://biblehub.com/text/2_peter/1-1.htm

It has already been established YOU don't know Greek at all and I leave the translation to CREDENTIALED scholars which you are not either.

the 'and' is between God and savior, so no matter how you prevaricate, the proper rendering is what I quoted.

You must be a masochist to always want to get beat down like this?

 

[daqq]

It has already been established YOU don't know Greek at all and I leave the translation to CREDENTIALED scholars which you are not either.

the 'and' is between God and savior, so no matter how you prevaricate, the proper rendering is what I quoted.

You must be a masochist to always want to get beat down like this?

Psalm 22 was also quoted and remains in the context of what I said. You cannot separate me from Messiah and his words no matter how hard you try. And when you insinuate that I must be "a masochist" you insinuate the same of Messiah in this case because of the passage which I clearly and plainly quoted. Who in his or her right mind would even attempt such a comment as yours knowing that the person had just quoted from Psalm 22? Certainly not a true disciple of Yeshua. You blaspheme the very name you claim to be defending and crucify Messiah all over again because you crucify me with him. Who therefore is the one crucified with Messiah? It certainly cannot be you who is doing the slaying. And every time you do so you ridicule, mock, scoff, and crack jokes at the person want to see destroyed just like your fathers did at Golgotha. You truly do not deserve to be among the faithful. It is alarming to see how many decent posters get banned while nothing happens to Stan the man because he is apparently nothing more than a vicious attack dog doing the local god a service with all his hate speech and murder-death-killing.

:sheep: