Are the Ten Commandments obsolete?
Jesus Changed The Law
- Thread starter Squeaky
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Are the Ten Commandments obsolete?
Ask Mr. Religion
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NCT Uproots Scripture
NCT Uproots Scripture
Specific differences between New Covenant Theology (NCT) and Covenant Theology (CT) include:
1. NCT’s denial of the Covenant of Redemption
2. Denial of the Covenant of Works
3. Denial of the Covenant of Grace
4. NCT's view of the relations between the historic covenant arrangements of redemptive history are quite dispensational. There is no appreciation for the unity of the Covenant of Grace, or the fact that we belong to one and the same covenant as Abraham.
5. Affirmation of the unity of the Mosaic Law, i.e., the Mosaic Law as a unit that cannot be divided, Thus, NCT rejects a functional distinction between moral, civil, and ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law.
6. Affirmation of the expiration of the Mosaic Law which is no longer operative for Christians today
7. Denies the threefold categorization of Biblical law: moral, ceremonial, and civil.
8. Teaching that Christians are under only the Law of Christ, i.e., commands given by Christ and His Apostles
9. Rejection of infant baptism
10. Affirmation that the church began at Pentecost, that there is no church in the Old Testament, but only the elect of Israel. NCT sees the saints of the OT as being added to the church after it's built.
11. Rejection of the normative aspect of the 4th commandment wherein "Let no one judge you," of Col.2:16, is read as the equivalent of "the 4th Commandment is obsolete."
12. Deny the indwelling of the Spirit of believers in the OT was not the same as in the NT (as Jesus would send the comforter).
See also:
http://confessingbaptist.com/nct/
AMR
NCT Uproots Scripture
No they are not. Unless you are one of those New Covenant Theology proponents, situated between dispensationalism and WCF/LBCF 1689 covenantalism.
Specific differences between New Covenant Theology (NCT) and Covenant Theology (CT) include:
1. NCT’s denial of the Covenant of Redemption
2. Denial of the Covenant of Works
3. Denial of the Covenant of Grace
4. NCT's view of the relations between the historic covenant arrangements of redemptive history are quite dispensational. There is no appreciation for the unity of the Covenant of Grace, or the fact that we belong to one and the same covenant as Abraham.
5. Affirmation of the unity of the Mosaic Law, i.e., the Mosaic Law as a unit that cannot be divided, Thus, NCT rejects a functional distinction between moral, civil, and ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law.
6. Affirmation of the expiration of the Mosaic Law which is no longer operative for Christians today
7. Denies the threefold categorization of Biblical law: moral, ceremonial, and civil.
8. Teaching that Christians are under only the Law of Christ, i.e., commands given by Christ and His Apostles
9. Rejection of infant baptism
10. Affirmation that the church began at Pentecost, that there is no church in the Old Testament, but only the elect of Israel. NCT sees the saints of the OT as being added to the church after it's built.
11. Rejection of the normative aspect of the 4th commandment wherein "Let no one judge you," of Col.2:16, is read as the equivalent of "the 4th Commandment is obsolete."
12. Deny the indwelling of the Spirit of believers in the OT was not the same as in the NT (as Jesus would send the comforter).
See also:
http://confessingbaptist.com/nct/
AMR
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I said
Are they written in the new testament????? If they are their not obsolete.
I said
Hey Mr Religion help us simpletons out a little here. What is the
WCF or LBCF 1689 covenantalism.
Specific differences between New Covenant Theology (NCT) and Covenant Theology (CT) include:
As you have said to may others here. You are an idiot. I guess that makes the prophecies of the prophets obsolete.
"You cant pick and choose which verses to hold as correct and which to pervert. And think that God will honor the ones you choose. Because He is judging you with the same measure of fact and the same measure of manipulation that you are using."
LOL...
I said
Are they written in the new testament? I haven't studied prophecy. Anyway a prophecy has nothing to do with us. We cant make it happen and we cant stop it from happening. They have nothing to do with our obedience.
Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)
Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)
I said
Its obvious that a lot of these verses are beyond your comprehension. But this verse is not that hard.
Matt 7:2
2 "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
(NKJ)
LOL...oh man now you still miss the irony here...
You said
"I said
You cant pick and choose which verses to hold as correct and which to pervert. And think that God will honor the ones you choose..."
After weeks of insisting by the abuse and torture of a text referring to fasting that allows one to choose which day to eat or not eat on...Romans 14...and misuse use it to defend your desire to choose whatever whenever any day everyday Sabbath...now you declare this
"You cant pick and choose which verses to hold as correct and which to pervert. And think that God will honor the ones you choose. "
That is funny to me.
I said
lol What is really funny is you think that Ro 14 is talking about fasting. When there is nothing in there about fasting. If you think that eating meat or vegetables is fasting you have got a lot to learn. Fasting is doing with out any food.
Rom 14:1-5
1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
(NKJ)
The word "alike" was added later but now adds to the hilarity as if every day could be a rest day...LOL
Don't forget
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Recall in Luke 18 the boastful Pharisee who insists he fasts twice a week? Well fasting in the OT was not made obligatory as in the Church its special holydaze...
Fasting in scripture is on any given day and is left for people to figure out for themselves when...how often how long...even why...
Here in Romans 14 Paul goes on about clean and unclean food not days...certainly not about Sabbath days
And concludes this discussion and instruction regarding doubtful things about diet and food...again NOT SABBATH...as if Sabbath keeping was ever doubtful to the early church...
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
So I highlighted some relevant parts which show it is about food. To eat or not to eat.
Oh and to help further clarify why it is not a Sabbath day being discussed...Sabbaths are FEAST DAYS not days of fasting...
Lev. 23: "1And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings."
Nothing in Romans 14 about the Sabbath or day to observe for worship...
I said
Well atleast now I know how you come up with your ideas. Your still discerning the Word with the milk understanding. I haven't been in the milk understanding for a few years now. I should have seen it with your nagging. The bible is written in the milk understanding. If you had the Holy Spirit teaching you. You would be in the meat understanding. The apostles all gave the milk understanding.
1 Cor 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
(NKJ)
Clefty let me try to explain it to you. I have two daughters, when they were young one was in the second grade and one was in the seventh grade. The younger one was just learning about math and the alphabet. And the other one was just learning about algebra. Well the first thing they teach the young ones is how to keep numbers and letters separate. One is math one is the alphabet with letters. Well they both came home from school and wanted to tell me all about the new things they were learning. And the older told me about doing math with the alphabet, and the younger was there and got all upset. Because they were teaching her that they had to be kept separate. They were both right but they were arguing over it.
So which one do you think I should side with?
So which one do you think I should side with?
You said it yourself they are both right...so you can't take sides...well maybe you do...
Especially if the older one doing algebra insisted her superior alphabet math meant that the younger was free to write 2 + 2 = 5 or that because she was using alphabet math she could spell the word "cat" with any or every letter or number she chose...
You would heartily agree with her...and explain to the younger one it was meat and not milk understanding...
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
It all comes down to this:
God says the law is forever.
JC says the law is forever.
Paul says the law is abolished.
Choose who you want to follow.
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5
It all comes down to this:
God says the law is forever.
JC says the law is forever.
Paul says the law is abolished.
Choose who you want to follow.
"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5
marhig
Well-known member
Paul never said such a thing, I know exactly what he means, we follow the law through faith by the a spirit not the letter. The spirit circumcises the heart, and cleanses us from within, so that we obey God. The whole purpose of Gods laws is that those who follow them have a clean heart before God, but you can corrupt the written law to suit man. But you can't corrupt the spirit, and those who are truly born of God and walk after the spirit will be living by the law, only it's all done in the heart. So that circumcision is now of the heart and not of the flesh.
What does circumcision of the flesh profit? You can still be circumcised of the flesh but have a wicked heart. God wants our heart cleansed, and the holy spirit does a proper job. He changes our hearts completely and helps us to put sin to death from within, thus the law is written in our hearts and in our minds. I am a totally different person now I know God, and I've never read all the laws. But he is changing my heart so that I am stopping sinning and I have a strong conscience. And I know in my heart how to live right before God. And I know that it is wrong to sin and disobey him.
And so did Paul, people have just twisted what he means too, because they love their flesh and they don't want to let it go. And not only have they twisted what Paul says. But they have turned the truth into a lie, by saying that a holy God needed to come here to be a human sacrifice, killed by wicked men. No he didn't, Jesus isn't God, and he came to preach the gospel and bare witness to the truth and he was a living sacrifice and gave up his life to do the will of God and show us the way, the truth as the life to live to please God. He lived by the laws and fulfilled them, so we have no excuse, we know how to live before God, and we have a perfect example to follow in Jesus. But religion had twisted what Jesus taught too. So that they can carry on sinning and living by their flesh. Our flesh loves the world, but once we are truly born of the God by the spirit, the world will mean nothing to us.
Romans 3
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I said
The younger has a very fragile mind. You are in the milk understanding and you have a very fragile mind. What you should be learning is humility. Its obvious you haven't learned that yet.
I said
The law is forever. The old testament law of sin and death. And the only thing that will over ride that law is the law of Christ.
Matt 19:30
30 "But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
(NKJ)
Rom 9:12
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
(NKJ)