Isn't it reasonable to doubt Young Earth Creationism?

[Jose Fly]

Thing is, I don't have to answer anything if I don't want to.

Nope, you sure don't. In internet forums you can get away with ducking and dodging questions all you want and all that'll happen is intelligent people will never take you at all seriously.

But if you were at a scientific conference and gave a presentation where you claimed that the hydroplate idea explained everything without miracles, and when the Q and A session started off with someone asking "how much energy is needed to move continental plates 55 mph", you just said "next question"....you'd be laughed off the stage and never invited back, and your reputation would be shattered.

Atheists have no choice but to distract, because if they don't, everyone will see how fraudulent their worldview is.

Who's an atheist?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nope, you sure don't. In internet forums you can get away with ducking and dodging questions all you want and all that'll happen is intelligent people will never take you at all seriously.

But if you were at a scientific conference and gave a presentation where you claimed that the hydroplate idea explained everything without miracles, and when the Q and A session started off with someone asking "how much energy is needed to move continental plates 55 mph", you just said "next question"....you'd be laughed off the stage and never invited back, and your reputation would be shattered.

Good thing I don't go to scientific conferences then... I'm sure you could find the answer your looking for, though, if you were to carefully read through "In the Beginning."

Who's an atheist?

See? More distractions. I never specified anyone, and yet you jumped on my comment like a starving wolf on fresh meat.

Back to the topic at hand, Jose, would this work as an explanation for how such events could happen?

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/TechnicalNotes6.html#wp14800338

 

[Jose Fly]

Good thing I don't go to scientific conferences then.

Yup. I'm sure you're more familiar with a church setting where it's preaching with no Q and A session.

I'm sure you could find the answer your looking for, though, if you were to carefully read through "In the Beginning."

Basically I take this as an indication that you have no idea how much energy is needed to move continental plates 55 mph.

See? More distractions. I never specified anyone, and yet you jumped on my comment like a starving wolf on fresh meat.

????? You made that comment in a post to me, right?

Back to the topic at hand, Jose, would this work as an explanation for how such events could happen?

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/TechnicalNotes6.html#wp14800338

I don't see anything about energy needed to rapidly move continental plates.

 

[iouae]

Ok... so call it what you want. I called it "Shoddy conclusions". For example there was no evidence that Neandertals communicated by grunting. It was based on the false, and racist belief that Neandertals were less human than ourselves.


Science had helped show the humanity of Neandertals... which evolutionists denied.

Now 6days is playing the racist card when we call Neanderthals not quite Homo sapiens.

I suppose he ran out of "heretic" cards.

Do you regard Homo erectus and Homo habilis as being Adam's descendants too, and thus offered salvation?

 

[iouae]

God is the "Great Scientist". This is a concept hard to understand for those whose life and work is not involved with the true sciences.

In science we use scientific methods to experiment and learn and grow, till we attain better results. It is anathema for most Christians to entertain (even for a nanosecond) the idea that God may not know everything, and may be experimenting, learning and growing as time goes on. Because I am involved with science almost every day, I see in the Bible the evidence for a God who is a Great Scientist and who learns and grows and experiences the joy of an "Ah ha" moment when he discovers something new, or creates something particularly good.

I see God experimenting, learning and growing in the pages of the Bible, and in the geologic column. Hominids did not start out looking like Homo sapiens, but, with much genetic manipulation, watching how the results turned out, God finally settled on Homo sapiens as "good enough" to start creating beings in His likeness and after His image. I plan to explore this theme in future posts.

 

[Stripe]

I am involved with science almost every day.

Why do you keep declaring your ideas to be fact?

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[iouae]

Why do you keep declaring your ideas to be fact?

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You quote my saying "I am involved with science almost every day." and then ask "Why do you keep declaring your ideas to be fact?". Because the idea that I am involved with science almost every day, is a fact.

 

[Stripe]

You quote my saying "I am involved with science almost every day." and then ask "Why do you keep declaring your ideas to be fact?". Because the idea that I am involved with science almost every day, is a fact.

:rotfl:

Simple comprehension is beyond you, huh?

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[6days]

I'm using your own statements. You accused scientists of reaching conclusions even though there was zero evidence for them, and basing those conclusions on beliefs rather than data

I think I used the word evolutionists. But, yes.... the conclusions were reached based on a false belief system. And so far all you have done is whined and complained and defended the shoddy conclusions.


There was zero evidence that Neandertals were dimwitted...that they communicated through grunting etc. Those were racist, dehumanizing beliefs which you are defending!


Science has helped dispel the false beliefs which dehumanized Neandertals. (Some evolutionists cling to their beliefs in spite of the evidence, because they WANT and NEED stooped over, hairy, inarticulate, dimwitted humanlike transitionals).

 

[6days]

I see God experimenting, learning and growing in the pages of the Bible

You practice idolatry and try shape God into an image of your own making. The God of Scripture is perfect. There is no limit to his understanding, knowing the past and the future.

 

[iouae]

:rotfl:

Simple comprehension is beyond you, huh?

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Huh?

 

[Jose Fly]

I think I used the word evolutionists. But, yes.... the conclusions were reached based on a false belief system. And so far all you have done is whined and complained and defended the shoddy conclusions.

What I've done is ask if you can back up the accusations you made. You obviously can't yet you continue to make the accusations. As I said, that doesn't speak well of you or your faith.

 

[Stripe]

Huh?

:darwinsm:

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[Stripe]

:mock: Lost posts.

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[Jonahdog]

Why do you keep declaring your ideas to be fact?

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How can I get an irony meter that can survive Stripey?

 

[Caino]

The YEC crowd spends so much time in denial of the facts of the old earth because it's so obvious outside the Bible bubble that they are wrong. Science destroys the superstition of the Bible, not the spiritual truths.


Imagine if the arrogant Old Testament authors had a chance to write about the life and trial of Jesus! What would that look like?

 

[6days]

Imagine if the arrogant Old Testament authors had a chance to write about the life and trial of Jesus! What would that look like?

They DID write about Jesus. For example... Which human in history is the seed of a woman?

Caino... your 'knowledge' of Scripture, although weak, surpasses your knowledge of science.

 

[JudgeRightly]

They DID write about Jesus. For example... Which human in history is the seed of a woman?

Caino... your 'knowledge' of Scripture, although weak, surpasses your knowledge of science.

Caino is one of them there Urantia types, dontcha know?

 

[iouae]

Terry Pratchett and other fiction writers create their own worlds in which there is logical consistency.

YEC's too have their own fictional world, which totally ignores reality.
They claim their world is based on scripture, but any described world which jars with reality should tell us which world is fictional. The lovely thing about fictional worlds is that they exist in the mind only, and the mind is great at deceiving itself.

Jer 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

But the whole YEC community derives strength from the fact that each one likes the other's posts, no matter how much nonsense the other is speaking.

And the YEC community has its own quirks. They hate regular science, but are drawn like moths to the flame of their own intellectual destruction, by fringe science. Creation.com and other anti-science sites feed them with answers all contrary to mainstream science.

Reality is what keeps us real, but when you create an alternate reality, weaving together a web of scriptures with their dodgy interpretations, and dishing up this fantasy as the "righteous" interpretation of scripture, this cocktail of faulty theology blended with faulty theology is repulsive to both science and Christianity.

Reality tells us that light from the furthest galaxies is older than 6000 years.
Reality tells us that there is a whole geologic column of organisms and biomes which never lived concurrently, but consecutively.

Reality shows that in the geologic column, oldest organisms were there first, and these oldest food chains had predators. So death had entered the world at this point, where no humans were around.

The fossil record shows various iterations of hominids which predate Homo sapiens.

To YEC's, I say deal with it. You have a flawed exegesis. It's not reality which is flawed, its your heads in the sand which is creating the apparent darkness.

The Bible does not force one to believe in a 60000 year old cosmos.

God the Great Scientist has been creating and doing things long before your little 6000 year past. He has been making worlds, and creating biomes with amazing critters. And it does appear that He experiments with creatures like the ediacaran biota in the pre-Cambrian, and then just discards these models of life, settling for the creatures we see on earth today.

If the rocks and old light contradict one's interpretation of scripture, maybe the rocks and old light are telling us to re-examine our theology.

 

[Stripe]

Terry Pratchett and other fiction writers create their own worlds in which there is logical consistency.

No, they don't. Every work of fiction has inherent contradictions. They do not point consistently to their own veracity.

YEC's too have their own fictional world, which totally ignores reality.

But you're just going to say so; you won't debate the evidence.

The whole Darwinist community derives strength from the fact that each one likes the other's posts, no matter how much nonsense the other is speaking. It has its own quirks. Evolutionists hate regular science, but are drawn like moths to the flame of their own intellectual destruction by fringe science. TalkOrigins.com and other anti-science sites feed them with answers all contrary to reason.

Reality is what keeps us real, but when you create an alternate reality, weaving together a web of scriptures with their dodgy interpretations, and dishing up this fantasy as the "righteous" interpretation of scripture, this cocktail of faulty theology blended with faulty theology is repulsive to both science and Christianity.

:blabla:

Reality tells us that light from the furthest galaxies is older than 6000 years.

I think this is the biggest challenge to the YEC view.

Reality tells us that there is a whole geologic column of organisms and biomes which never lived concurrently, but consecutively.

Nope.

This is the fallacy of begging the question. The geological column is an assumption of the long-age view.

Also, sedimentary rocks are the result of a global flood, which you ascribe to. It's bizarre that you believe all life was drowned in fountain-derived waters 4,500 years ago, but think sedimentary rocks have no record of such an event.

Reality shows that in the geologic column, oldest organisms were there first, and these oldest food chains had predators. So death had entered the world at this point, where no humans were around.

It looks like you're beating up a straw man; death was around pre-flood.

The fossil record shows various iterations of hominids which predate Homo sapiens.

No, it doesn't.

Deal with it. You have a flawed exegesis. It's not reality that is flawed, it's your heads in the sand creating the apparent darkness.

The Bible does not force one to believe in a 60000 year old cosmos.

:darwinsm:

You can believe whatever you like. :chuckle:

God the Great Scientist has been creating and doing things long before your little 6000 year past. He has been making worlds, and creating biomes with amazing critters. And it does appear that He experiments with creatures like the ediacaran biota in the pre-Cambrian, and then just discards these models of life, settling for the creatures we see on earth today.

All because you say so.

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