I don't know what else to say to this insight, except
I've never given out such a tip of the hat before,
and it surprises me I'm giving it to you.
Naz, consider us both very pleasantly surprised.
:cheers:
Islamic Terrorists France: 12 dead, police gunned down
- Thread starter Nazaroo
- Start date
Naz, consider us both very pleasantly surprised.
:cheers:
Then be impressed because they absolutely are, big and small, nation and religious leader. They just don't play much of it on the local or national news.
I wonder why that is...anyway, I set out a number of strong responses and sources, I think in this very thread because after it happened I had the same question, "How are Muslims treating this?"
And I went out and found out and was heartened.
Ultimately, no, we don't want to send the message that Islam is incompatible with Western values. But there aren't a lot of problems that become better by refusing to acknowledge them, either, and this certainly isn't one of them.
Another point that was made by Salman Rushdie on the show is that this is primarily a civil war within Islam. Europe and the Americas are largely a side-show. The real action is between Muslims.
Why, it isnt.
Yet non-Muslims are being slaughtered by the hundreds if not thousands?
And so are Muslims. Except that you have to combine those two numbers to get the right ballpark. It's at least hundreds of thousands of Muslims dead.
Edit: Case in point:
http://yourblackworld.net/2015/01/e...assacre-but-2000-people-just-died-in-nigeria/
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Yes, they are slaughtering each other. That is to say, the power mad extremists are slaughtering the defenseless and the naïve.
PARIS -- At a kosher supermarket in Paris, a quick-thinking Muslim employee hides several Jewish shoppers in the basement before sneaking out to brief police on the hostage-taker upstairs. In the town of Dammartin-en-Goele, a poker-faced businessman fools a pair of gunmen into believing they're alone in the building before being allowed to leave unharmed.
In the days after the bloody end of twin French hostage crises Friday, stories of life-saving courage are beginning to filter out. One of the most striking is the story of Lassana Bathily, a young immigrant from Mali who literally provided police with the key to ending the hostage crisis at the supermarket.
Bathily was in the store's underground stockroom when gunman Amedy Coulibaly burst in upstairs, according to accounts given to French media and to a friend of Bathily's who spoke to The Associated Press. Bathily turned off the stockroom's freezer and hid a group of frightened shoppers inside before sneaking out through a fire escape to speak to police. Initially confused for the attacker, he was forced to the ground and handcuffed.
Once police realized their mistake, he provided them with the key they needed to open the supermarket's metal blinds and mount their assault.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...e-saving-courage-during-paris-store-siege.ece
In the days after the bloody end of twin French hostage crises Friday, stories of life-saving courage are beginning to filter out. One of the most striking is the story of Lassana Bathily, a young immigrant from Mali who literally provided police with the key to ending the hostage crisis at the supermarket.
Bathily was in the store's underground stockroom when gunman Amedy Coulibaly burst in upstairs, according to accounts given to French media and to a friend of Bathily's who spoke to The Associated Press. Bathily turned off the stockroom's freezer and hid a group of frightened shoppers inside before sneaking out through a fire escape to speak to police. Initially confused for the attacker, he was forced to the ground and handcuffed.
Once police realized their mistake, he provided them with the key they needed to open the supermarket's metal blinds and mount their assault.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/loca...e-saving-courage-during-paris-store-siege.ece
Violence is always the result of being unable or unwilling to process our own suffering. We tend to express our fears and differences by lashing out at others to continue re-enacting our own dysfunctions in others.
Those that can connect with and understand our original pain have a better chance of expressing it with respect, maturity and fairness.
These Muslims who are violent feel pushed and marginalized. They see very little hope and have never learned from their upbringing to solve problems with good communication techniques. They act like toddlers who act out their revenge fantasies on authoritarian parents and cultures.
Those that can connect with and understand our original pain have a better chance of expressing it with respect, maturity and fairness.
These Muslims who are violent feel pushed and marginalized. They see very little hope and have never learned from their upbringing to solve problems with good communication techniques. They act like toddlers who act out their revenge fantasies on authoritarian parents and cultures.
Morpheus
New member
It is especially true of young adults who have been picked on and marginalized. That is how the gangs recruited, and now the terrorist groups. When young people don't have positive role models mentoring them they are susceptible to negative groups who will make them feel wanted and included. Attacking them will only drive them into the waiting arms of the recruiters. Eating and sharing with Muslims, going to their homes and mosques when invited and inviting them into our homes and churches for occasions or simply friendship, does more to inspire understanding and coexistence, than anything else. We've had some excellent conversations over the breaking of a Ramadan fast, or a Christmas dinner, plus the food is really good.
Morpheus! What are you saying?
Would Jesus consider socializing with unbelievers? Do you know what this could lead to? People might stop hating each other. (WFTH-I)
Would Jesus consider socializing with unbelievers? Do you know what this could lead to? People might stop hating each other. (WFTH-I)
One poster claimed that even under OT Mosaic Law the Paris shootings must not have been condoned. I disagree. If Islam was Christianity under Mosaic Law the jihadist problem would have been a magnitude of times greater. And also in the OT God commands the stoning of the blasphemers. Sharia law is a much easier law, praise be to God!
The Jihadist problem is very complex and the West shouldn't try to simplify it as West vs Jihadism or that all Jihadists are evil. As a Muslim I don't condemn all violence and all Jihadism, even if Jihadism is taken to mean violence (and not coupled with humanitarian efforts to improve the lives of the oppressed). War is sometimes necessary.
The ultimate victims of the Khawariz (false jihadists) and their ideologies are not the West or Western Civilisation. They are the Muslims and Islam that are the main victims of fake jihadism. The West shouldn't expect us to apologise or condemn actions that ultimately work to destroy us - that doesn't make sense.
The Jihadist problem is very complex and the West shouldn't try to simplify it as West vs Jihadism or that all Jihadists are evil. As a Muslim I don't condemn all violence and all Jihadism, even if Jihadism is taken to mean violence (and not coupled with humanitarian efforts to improve the lives of the oppressed). War is sometimes necessary.
The ultimate victims of the Khawariz (false jihadists) and their ideologies are not the West or Western Civilisation. They are the Muslims and Islam that are the main victims of fake jihadism. The West shouldn't expect us to apologise or condemn actions that ultimately work to destroy us - that doesn't make sense.
You've done everything you can here to justify or excuse this attack. Why should anyone here give a damn what you think?
he Prophet (pbuh) has informed us of this in the hadith of Hudhayfah (rali.) in which he said: "The people used to ask the Messenger of Allah (sal) about the good, and I used to ask him about the evil out of fear that it would reach me." So I asked the Messenger of Allah: "O Messenger of Allah, we were living in ignorance and evil, then Allah brought this good to us. So will there be any evil after this good?" He replied: "Yes." I then asked: "Will there be any good after this evil?" He replied: "Yes, but it will be tainted." So I asked: "What will be its taint?" He replied: "A people who guide others to other than my way, you will approve of some of their actions and disapprove of others." I further enquired: "Then is there any evil after this good?" He said: "Yes! Callers at the gates of Hell - whoever responds to their call, they will be thrown into the fire." I then said: "O Messenger of Allah! Describe them to us." He said: "They will be from our people and speak our language." I asked: "So what do you order me to do if that reaches me?" He said: "Stick to the Jama'ah (the united body) of the Muslims and their Imam (ruler)." I further asked: "What if they have neither Jama'ah or an Imam?" He said: "Then keep away from all those sects, even if you have to bite upon the roots of a tree, until death reaches you whilst you are in that state."
Thauban reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake. And Ihave seen its eastern and western ends. And the dominion of my Unimahwould reach those ends which have been drawn near me and I have beengranted the red and the white trea- sure and I begged my Lord for myUmmah that it should not be destroyed because of famine, nor bedominated by an enemy who is not amongst them to take their lives anddestroy them root and branch, and my Lord said: Muhammad, whenever Imake a decision, there is none to change it. Well, I grant you for yourUmmah that it would not be destroyed by famine and it would not bedominated by an enemy who would not be amongst it and would take theirlives and destroy them root and branch even if all the people from thedifferent parts of the world join hands together (for this purpose),but it would be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some peoplewould kill the others or imprison the others (Sahih Muslim)
Thauban reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:Allah drew the ends of the world near one another for my sake. And Ihave seen its eastern and western ends. And the dominion of my Unimahwould reach those ends which have been drawn near me and I have beengranted the red and the white trea- sure and I begged my Lord for myUmmah that it should not be destroyed because of famine, nor bedominated by an enemy who is not amongst them to take their lives anddestroy them root and branch, and my Lord said: Muhammad, whenever Imake a decision, there is none to change it. Well, I grant you for yourUmmah that it would not be destroyed by famine and it would not bedominated by an enemy who would not be amongst it and would take theirlives and destroy them root and branch even if all the people from thedifferent parts of the world join hands together (for this purpose),but it would be from amongst them, viz. your Ummah, that some peoplewould kill the others or imprison the others (Sahih Muslim)
None of your words change nor do they erase the horrifying and depraved deeds committed and being committed by Muslims against other Muslims and non-Muslims.
You enter other peoples countries and try to impose your will on an existing people who have established cultures, religions and governments.
That reeks of the goal for world domination.
I would never agree to the definition of freedom of expression/speech that includes the freedom to blaspheme religion or to slander or to hate speech.
Je ne suis pas Charlie - because CH have in the past made fun of massacres. I am not that low.
I condemn the hypocrisy of the West esp France and the UK in this issue. France continues to ban the wearing of the burka and continues to ban the wearing and use of any religious symbol outside homes and places of worship. Call that freedom of expression? The UK recently banned one of my favourite Islamic speakers, Mufti Menk, from the UK or from speaking in UK unis simply because he called homosexual people as "worse that animals". Where's the freedom of speech here?
I have changed my mind on the Paris shootings. I now condemn it fully because of two reasons. Killing of a Muslim and the lack of sharia courts/law in France. They still would be severely punished by God.
1. Imposing God's wills and commandments forcefully is wrong.
2. Of course every Muslim wants the entire world to accept Islam or tawhid in some way.
Before you condemn something make sure that the action you are condemning was not once God's commands as in the OT. The way of God does not change
We've established as much. This attitude is what makes you and others like you so incredibly dangerous.
France has their own reasons for banning the burka. To imply that it justifies murdering over a dozen people is perverse.
Making him a bigoted, wretched idiot. If you're going to start lecturing the west about a lack of free speech, be prepared for someone to point out as a Muslim you live in a glass house by definition. Really want to go there?
For the wrong reasons, predictably.
Which by itself puts you outside the realm of decent people. Short of incitement to violence (for which I'd put some very strict controls on what constitutes incitement), there should be no restraint at all on free speech. Slander or libel may have consequences later, but prior restraint is inherently evil.
If God gives people the freedom to disregard His laws, then who are you to object to Him doing so?
Who are you to speak for Him to decide?
Maybe.
Yes perverse, but did I just do that?
You missed my point. I was condemning their HYPOCRISY. Practice what you preach.