Is there a true church?

[brewmama]

Peter taught that pastors and teachers should set an proper example for the flock of God, not for money but for service.

In the NT church of God there is no priest/laity structure, no "lords" over the flock.

Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly, nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. (1 Peter 5:2-3 NKJV)

And remember marriage is honorable among all... (Hebrews 13:4 NKJV)​

Organizations that don't adhere to these instructions are not of God.

That's not true. Priests and bishops are not rich, at least not in my church, and your scripture only says "dishonest gain", not making a living. And your own verse DOES point to a structure. You also ignore Paul's encouragement to say single and focused on God, even though marriage is certainly blessed and acceptable. What a selective interpretation you have. You are the one not adhering to the instructions.

 

[jamie]

You also ignore Paul's encouragement to say single and focused on God, even though marriage is certainly blessed and acceptable.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Romans 7:4 NKJV)​

This is the bottom line on Paul's assessment of marriage.

Jesus is betrothed.

 

[jamie]

and your scripture only says "dishonest gain", not making a living.

I agree that pastors and elders should make a living but not from the people they serve. Contributions should go to the needy, which is true religion.

Paul was a tentmaker, but many pastors make preaching a fulltime job, which it isn't.

 

[glassjester]

I agree that pastors and elders should make a living but not from the people they serve. Contributions should go to the needy, which is true religion.

Paul was a tentmaker, but many pastors make preaching a fulltime job, which it isn't.

I'm pretty sure Paul eventually went full-time. As did Jesus.

 

[Cruciform]

From In other words, if a Romanist apologist is going to continue to leverage the ECF poorly, especially as relates to the common Romanist tactic of replacing "catholic" with "Catholic" without warrant, at least do the ECF the courtesy of allowing them to speak for themselves versus importing anachronisms into their words.

• In fact, by the close of the 1st century, "Catholic" was already being used as a technical term referring to that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., as can readily be seen in the casually unqualified way in which Ignatius and his fellow early Church Fathers employ it.
• It should also be noted that the "Catholic Church" described by Ignatius and the other Church Fathers has believed and taught various thoroughly "Catholic" doctrines from the beginning, among which are the following:
  
  • the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
  • Tradition as the word of God (along with Scripture)
  • the primacy and authority of the Papacy
  • the intermediate state of purgatory
  • the hierarchical structure (bishop/priest/deacon) of Christ's Catholic Church
  • baptismal regeneration
  • verbal confession of sins to a priest
  • a 73-book biblical canon
  • the use of sacred images and objects in worship and devotion
  • the invocation of the intercession of past Saints
  • apostolic succession
  • the role of good works (not "works of the law") in salvation
  • paedobaptism

If you're going to refer to yourself as part of "the Catholic Church," you'll need to affirm the above beliefs and teachings as well, since the one merely defines and describes the other.


For more info, see this, this, and this.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

In fact, by the close of the 1st century, "Catholic" was already being used as a technical term referring to that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D.

As usual, a non-answer containing nothing but wild assumptions irrelevant to my corrective.

AMR

 

[Cruciform]

As usual, a non-answer containing nothing but wild assumptions irrelevant to my corrective.

You're apparently far more impressed with your "corrective" than are those who don't happen to buy into the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made Protestant sect. :yawn:

The fact that you were in no way able to disprove the content of Post #25 is noted as well.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

...the content of Post #25...

Link?

Do you understand that the number of posts displayed in a browser for TOL is a setting the user can determine? As in 5, 10 posts per page, 20, 100? I am not going to go scrolling or paging about for someone who has demonstrated little courtesy in reasoned discourse.

AMR

 

[Cruciform]

Link?

Post #25

 

[brewmama]

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Romans 7:4 NKJV)​

This is the bottom line on Paul's assessment of marriage.

Jesus is betrothed.

Um, yes, we are the Bride of Christ, no argument there, but it's not Paul's bottom line.

1 Cor 7 1-9

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
...
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

 

[brewmama]

I agree that pastors and elders should make a living but not from the people they serve. Contributions should go to the needy, which is true religion.

Paul was a tentmaker, but many pastors make preaching a fulltime job, which it isn't.

Actually it is.

 

[Crucible]

John Calvin hit the reset button on all the centuries of heresy. Reformed doctrine is the belief of the early Christians, plain and simple.

You can sit there and gawk at the Pope always wondering what's coming next, or sit there in you're false pride in works of the will- or you just accept the simple truth and get on with it :thumb:

 

[Cruciform]

John Calvin hit the reset button on all the centuries of heresy.

Yes, including the "heresies" of Luther and Zwingli, with whom Calvin passionately disagreed even to the level of essential Christian doctrine, and they with him. The so-called "reformers" couldn't even agree among themselves regarding the content of Christian teaching, and certainly possessed no doctrinal authority to decide what was and was not "heresy" on behalf of all believers.

In any case, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you received from your chosen recently-invented, man-made Protestant sect are noted. :yawn:

Reformed doctrine is the belief of the early Christians, plain and simple.

No thanks. Been there, done that (for more than a decade). And "reformed" doctrine couldn't be further from the actual beliefs and teachings of the early Christian Church. See, for example, this.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[jamie]

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

Paul had a reason for saying that. He didn't know how much time they had before the coming of Christ. And we still don't know, so if you don't want to be married then don't be.

We are not in the first century though.

 

[jamie]

Actually it is.

Why?

 

[RBBI]

In mud up to their ears. I just have to ask....what is this "TULIP" some of you refer to? Peace

I agree that pastors and elders should make a living but not from the people they serve. Contributions should go to the needy, which is true religion.

Paul was a tentmaker, but many pastors make preaching a fulltime job, which it isn't.

It's amazing how few times I've ever seen ANYONE, ANYWHERE, see this. Congrats to you...Peace

 

[brewmama]

Why?

Why does a bishop in charge of many parishes, or even dioceses, need to be at it full time? Are you serious?

 

[brewmama]

Paul had a reason for saying that. He didn't know how much time they had before the coming of Christ. And we still don't know, so if you don't want to be married then don't be.

We are not in the first century though.

So? My church is the same as the one in the 1st century. And I was responding to YOUR claim that everyone should be married, at least that it what it seemed to imply.

 

[brewmama]

John Calvin hit the reset button on all the centuries of heresy. Reformed doctrine is the belief of the early Christians, plain and simple.

I can assure you THAT'S not true. Try studying some early church history.

 

[Crucible]

I can assure you THAT'S not true. Try studying some early church history.

I can assure you that the early Christians weren't any different than Reformed believers. The Catholic Church went and expounded on things that were either unneeded or speculative. Reformed doctrine is what is essential.