ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
actually, i do, because i would have more concern for their eternal existence than you would
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
actually, i do, because i would have more concern for their eternal existence than you would
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Care to play out a similar scenario of Q&A where the victims are in the equation?
:think:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
sure!
God: "Hello Hitler victim! Howdja like to accept Christ as your savior and come into heaven?"
Hitler victim: "Dude! That sounds awesome!"
God: "Come on in!"
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
No, what you do is frequently quote mine and post about how you look forward to other people suffering. As quoted.
Maybe you should go back to people having some cartoon ideas about hell or maybe just watch some.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Is this before or after they've died in a concentration camp?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Jesus answered this:
Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” - Luke 17:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke17:3-4&version=NKJV
God cannot forgive someone who is unrepentant.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Supposing in time everyone is? Or is this finite plain the only time where any divine work has effect?
Paul answered this:
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them )in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:12-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:12-16&version=NKJV
So that even some hindu farmer living up on some mountain who has never been in contact with a Bible or Christian can come to know God, even if he doesn't know His name.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
How about you knock it off in turn?
I notice you didn't even attempt to reply to me after Doser made his stupid and trolling "cartoon" nonsense post. You're not helping any when you enable and give high fives to that dishonest garbage.
You might still be a mod JR but you don't deserve any respect when you endorse stuff like that.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Oh, and they're all going to be disposed to believing in the same deity as you with your Bible at hand and some handy quotes? What the heck would a Hindu farmer know about the epistles of Paul? What would a starving family in Ethiopia know about much besides just trying to survive?
:rain:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Read the passage again, Artie listen to what it's saying.
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. - Romans 2:12-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:12-16&version=NKJV
Paul's gospel is true, no matter who hears or doesn't hear it.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What point do you think you're making with that exactly? A person's conscience doesn't require an innate knowledge of law. In some cases it was those who thought they were so clued up on it that lacked the very attributes of humanity they were rebuked for. The legalists during Christ's ministry didn't fare very well.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Says the guy who had to go running to the report shed when he didn't like being called out.
lain:
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Everyone is mostly referring to sins (plural articular hamartemata), not sin (singular anarthrous hamartia).
Individual acts are the not the fundamental issue of salvation and that which Christ directly died for. Christ died directly and primarily for sin as a human condition and state of being, individually applied; then the inclusion is for the individual acting and resulting acts/actions of the redeemed. (This is why Calvinism and Arminianism are a false dichotomy based upon a false premise with opposing emphases.)
There should never be a primary evaluative emphasis on individual acts on a scale from benign to heinous. The focus is upon the state of being for all individuals. Salvation is first an ontological issue, and secondarily an economy issue.
Doing bad versus badder versus baddererest things is not the consideration for salvation. Murder, or even genocide, is not something that prevents salvation. But there are other factors to consider if someone has gotten to that point of sin (singular anarthrous hamartia) as their state of being. It requires frustrating grace in a greater manner to be in that condition ontologically.
Individual acts are the not the fundamental issue of salvation and that which Christ directly died for. Christ died directly and primarily for sin as a human condition and state of being, individually applied; then the inclusion is for the individual acting and resulting acts/actions of the redeemed. (This is why Calvinism and Arminianism are a false dichotomy based upon a false premise with opposing emphases.)
There should never be a primary evaluative emphasis on individual acts on a scale from benign to heinous. The focus is upon the state of being for all individuals. Salvation is first an ontological issue, and secondarily an economy issue.
Doing bad versus badder versus baddererest things is not the consideration for salvation. Murder, or even genocide, is not something that prevents salvation. But there are other factors to consider if someone has gotten to that point of sin (singular anarthrous hamartia) as their state of being. It requires frustrating grace in a greater manner to be in that condition ontologically.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Says the guy who had to go running to the report shed when he didn't like being called out.
i'm sorry artie, i shouldn't have posted that
but i'll stand by my report to the woodshed - you were personalizing the argument
in fact you've been doing that all afternoon
if you really want to have a discussion about empathy and compassion, i'm up for it, but leave off the personalizing jabs, ok?
in fact, i started a new thread for it: http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...on-for-Mass-Murderers-Rapists-Child-Molesters