Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[God's Truth]

Hebrews 12:18-25 18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake: ) 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:​

This is referring to the time before the Judgment.

It is proof that our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.

The only ones that live on in consciousness are in resurrected bodies after the Judgment not the ones that were thrown into the lake of fire and fully destroyed.

Resurrected bodies are going to be spiritual bodies, and spiritual bodies do not die.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Resurrected bodies are going to be spiritual bodies, and spiritual bodies do not die.

Resurrected bodies are physical bodies.

John 20:27 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.​

 

[God's Truth]

Resurrected bodies are physical bodies.

John 20:27 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.​

When Jesus went to heaven with the Father, Jesus was given the same glorious body he had before he came to earth.

What is raised immortal is not just our spirit---it is a spiritual BODY.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is

 

[genuineoriginal]

When Jesus went to heaven with the Father, Jesus was given the same glorious body he had before he came to earth.

You got that from somewhere other than the Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

You got that from somewhere other than the Bible.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Did you read the scripture how Jesus says to the Father to GLORIFY him in HIS PRESENCE?

In the Father's presence.

Jesus is telling us he will be glorified in the Father's presence.

Jesus says with the same glory he had with the Father before the world began.

Remember Jesus gave up his body when he came to earth. However, he will be given his same glorious body in the presence of the Father.

 

[Timotheos]

Happy Resurrection Sunday!

Christ has risen from the grave! Christ has risen from death! Death and the grave can NOT hold HIM! He has defeated death! He has ascended into heaven and He will return to also resurrect us from our graves and give us eternal life! Death cannot hold us down, our Savior has promised to return for us and give us eternal life!

 

[Scottune]

No warning to adam about eternal torment in hell as result of disobedience......just that he will die
Nothing during moses days or noahs or during the kings....cant find eternal torment in hell in ot.
Jesus is first to lay it out there...then it disappears through entire book of acts....weird stuff indeed... Guess if they brought up gehenna the people who didnt know where that was would be confused ...it was a dump in jerusalem...anyhow ive been studying hell for sometime now and still haven't gone to the no hell side yet but getting closer as the yrs past.....only cause of this one question.....plase someone chime in and help me with the answer though it may be unanswerable.......why didnt god close eves womb after she sinned if hell awaited billions? Even if billions end up in heaven and one goes to eternal torment then not worth it.....only way it makes sense to let man reproduce is annihilation or universalism...just my thoughts

 

[dodge]

We have today the Olympic Torch which is known as an "eternal flame." We call it that because the flame just keeps burning and burning. If you were to throw a wad of paper into the flame would the paper keep on burning and burning or would it burn up in a few seconds? Yet the flame is still called an eternal fire.

Think about it.

Mar 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[dodge]

No warning to adam about eternal torment in hell as result of disobedience......just that he will die
Nothing during moses days or noahs or during the kings....cant find eternal torment in hell in ot.
Jesus is first to lay it out there...then it disappears through entire book of acts....weird stuff indeed... Guess if they brought up gehenna the people who didnt know where that was would be confused ...it was a dump in jerusalem...anyhow ive been studying hell for sometime now and still haven't gone to the no hell side yet but getting closer as the yrs past.....only cause of this one question.....plase someone chime in and help me with the answer though it may be unanswerable.......why didnt god close eves womb after she sinned if hell awaited billions? Even if billions end up in heaven and one goes to eternal torment then not worth it.....only way it makes sense to let man reproduce is annihilation or universalism...just my thoughts

Jesus taught on hell which included OT folks.

Luk 16:20
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,


Luk 16:21
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.


16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;


Luk 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.


Luk 16:26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


Luk 16:27
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:


Luk 16:28
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.


Luk 16:29
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.


Luk 16:30
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.


Luk 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Folks have a choice God and life or Satan and eternal death.

God is love and he prepared a way to avoid eternal punishment but men reject God's provision and love condemning themselves to eternal torment.

 

[freelight]

Just a parable...............

Just a parable...............

Jesus taught on hell which included OT folks.

Luk 16:20
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,


Luk 16:21
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.


16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;


Luk 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Luk 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Luk 16:25
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.


Luk 16:26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


Luk 16:27
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:


Luk 16:28
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.


Luk 16:29
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.


Luk 16:30
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.


Luk 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Folks have a choice God and life or Satan and eternal death.

God is love and he prepared a way to avoid eternal punishment but men reject God's provision and love condemning themselves to eternal torment.

Its just a parable,....see here & here.

We've challenged the heinous and erroneous doctrine of ECT here and elsewhere. An intelligent reasonable person cannot accept ECT, because it violates certain morals and principles, defeats the purpose of life, and annuls the will of love....among other problematic points. Which is why I see the truth as being somewhere between 'universalism' or 'conditional immortality, and such depends on how we define and qualify our terms.

 

[dodge]

Its just a parable,....see here & here.

We've challenged the heinous and erroneous doctrine of ECT here and elsewhere. An intelligent reasonable person cannot accept ECT, because it violates certain morals and principles, defeats the purpose of life, and annuls the will of love....among other problematic points. Which is why I see the truth as being somewhere between 'universalism' or 'conditional immortality, and such depends on how we define and qualify our terms.

Parables DO NOT name folks. In this event we see Lazarus and Abraham.....Sorry it is NOT a parable.

 

[freelight]

More to consider here......

More to consider here......

Parables DO NOT name folks. In this event we see Lazarus and Abraham.....Sorry it is NOT a parable.

I've provided my opinions, accompanying articles and other points to support the "just a parable" view. I'll maintain this POV until further info. challenges me to reconsider,....we would ask you to do the same. This goes also for the monstrous belief that God himself enforces and maintains the 'eternal conscious torment' of souls, a most heinous imposition to place upon a God whose eternal will is motivated by love, divine value and life-potential. It against these illogical beliefs and conceptions of 'God' that myself and others object.

In all this 'accounting' is also the law of karma to consider (see here), which does factor in how we are 'judged' according to our works. So, there is much more here to consider than what a limited traditional belief of just a 'heaven or hell' paradigm includes, limited further by its confined eschatology.

 

[CherubRam]

Mar 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Quote: "Where their worm dieth not," is parabolic for eternal destruction. Quote: "and the fire is not quenched," is parabolic for the judgement never being satisfied. Parables have a literal application, but they are not literal. You people need to study your bible better.

 

[CherubRam]

The story of Lazarus and Abraham is a fabrication and is not the words of Christ.

 

[dodge]

The story of Lazarus and Abraham is a fabrication and is not the words of Christ.

You claim to follow Jesus and yet deny His teachings which according to Jesus makes YOU a hypocrite.

 

[CherubRam]

Hell is the Serpent's doctrine. God says "you will surly die," and the Serpent says to Eve, "you will not surly die." This doctrine helps us identify the Serpent in scriptures.

 

[CherubRam]

You claim to follow Jesus and yet deny His teachings which according to Jesus makes YOU a hypocrite.

Secret Societies are the ones who keep the Christian community divided and from uniting. They also have corrupted the scriptures.

Jude

1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.

 

[dodge]

Hell is the Serpent's doctrine. God says "you will surly die," and the Serpent says to Eve, "you will not surly die." This doctrine helps us identify the Serpent in scriptures.

God told Adam that the DAY he ate off the forbidden tree he would die. You do NOT even realize that YOU call God a liar.

A day unto God is as a 1000 years unto man and a 1000 years unto man is but a day unto God. Did Adam live a 1000 years ? Answer =NO.

 

[CherubRam]

God told Adam that the DAY he ate off the forbidden tree he would die. You do NOT even realize that YOU call God a liar.

A day unto God is as a 1000 years unto man and a 1000 years unto man is but a day unto God. Did Adam live a 1000 years ? Answer =NO.

You are a false accuser.

 

[dodge]

You are a false accuser.

I suggest you read the bible yourself and STOP listening to whoever is teaching you all the errors and deceptions you believe and try to teach others.