Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[God's Truth]

There is nothing said about David meeting his son.

Rather it is that David would go to the grave where his son is.

LA

You have a doctrine of death. You deny all the scriptures that explain about the spiritual.

 

[God's Truth]

what scripture says the wicked will be raised with imperishable bodies?

LA

1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;

Acts 24:15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The wicked will not be raised with imperishable bodies, for the righteous will have glorious bodies like Christs body.

The wicked will perish in the flames of hell for they are raised in perishable bodies.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You have a doctrine of death. You deny all the scriptures that explain about the spiritual.

So says GT the spiritualist.

LA

 

[Timotheos]

What is raised is not imperishable. That is what the scriptures say.

That is not what the scriptures say.
Go to the scriptures, find out what it says, then post it here.
Here I will do it for you:
1 Corinthians 15:50-57 ESV

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

When Paul wrote that the dead will be raised imperishable, he means Christians, not the wicked. He says WE will not all sleep, WE will be changed. The Bible never ever says that those who will perish will be raised imperishable. If there are none that are perishable, why does Paul say that the perishable will not inherit the imperishable? Who are these perishable people who are not perishable yet will not inherit the imperishable?

 

[Timotheos]

You have a doctrine of death. You deny all the scriptures that explain about the spiritual.

You made this claim about me as well.
How is the doctrine of eternal life in Christ for all who believe - "a doctrine of death"? The doctrine of eternal life in Christ is a doctrine of LIFE, not death. We proclaim the way to have eternal life, Jesus Christ our Lord and Master, the Very Son of God.

 

[chrysostom]

the second death
first the body
then the soul
it is that simple

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Just posted in the other Hell thread:

First, one must accept a couple of concepts. Hell, and Heaven, are not "places", but rather states of being.

Because we have free will, man is capable of either choosing or rejecting God. And depending on the state one is in at death, they die in either God's friendship or they die separated from God.

Next, since our spirit is eternal (or immortal) and lives forever, we exist either in eternal union & friendship with God (Heaven) or we exist eternally separated from God (Hell). The colorful language that describes Hell in the Bible - fire, gnashing of teeth, etc. - is an attempt to describe the sheer emptiness of being eternally separated from your creator who you were created to love.

These are the states of our being after death; either union with God or separation from God.

Lastly, we must remember, it is our choice. We make the choice to choose or reject God. So this ridiculous phrase "Eternal Torment" is being wrongly used to describe what eternity must be like to be separated from our Creator. And its not that Hell is eternal, its that our spirit is what lasts forever, which is why whatever state we exist in after death is eternal.

Those are the FACTS.

 

[God's Truth]

You made this claim about me as well.
How is the doctrine of eternal life in Christ for all who believe - "a doctrine of death"? The doctrine of eternal life in Christ is a doctrine of LIFE, not death. We proclaim the way to have eternal life, Jesus Christ our Lord and Master, the Very Son of God.

You have a doctrine of death because, not unlike Lazy Afternoon, you both do not believe in the life of the spirit. You do not believe the life Christ gives us. You believe the spirit dies along with the body of flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

The wicked will not be raised with imperishable bodies, for the righteous will have glorious bodies like Christs body.

The wicked will perish in the flames of hell for they are raised in perishable bodies.

LA

The scriptures do not say what you say. The scriptures say what is buried is not what raised.

 

[God's Truth]

That is not what the scriptures say.
Go to the scriptures, find out what it says, then post it here.
Here I will do it for you:
1 Corinthians 15:50-57 ESV

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

When Paul wrote that the dead will be raised imperishable, he means Christians, not the wicked. He says WE will not all sleep, WE will be changed. The Bible never ever says that those who will perish will be raised imperishable. If there are none that are perishable, why does Paul say that the perishable will not inherit the imperishable? Who are these perishable people who are not perishable yet will not inherit the imperishable?

In the scriptures you are using wrongly, Paul is speaking about those who are alive at the time of Jesus' coming.

Read this scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

Paul explains that what is planted---what is BURIED---is NOT the body that will be.

 

[rstrats]

CatholicCrusader,

re: "... our spirit is eternal (or immortal)..."

What scripture says that?

 

[God's Truth]

CatholicCrusader,

re: "... our spirit is eternal (or immortal)..."

What scripture says that?

Man can kill the body, but not the body with the spirit. A soul is a body with the spirit.

Since man cannot kill the body with the spirit, how do you think the spirit dies?

I will tell you how. It does not die.


Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[rstrats]

Deleted.

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth,

re: "God is able to put an end to the spirits of men..."

I think you mean that He is able to put an end to the souls of men and not the spirit of men.

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

A soul is a physical body with a spirit. The spirit makes the body a 'living soul'.

 

[chrysostom]

Man can kill the body, but not the body with the spirit. A soul is a body with the spirit.

Since man cannot kill the body with the spirit, how do you think the spirit dies?

I will tell you how. It does not die.


Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

so the soul can be destroyed

right?

 

[God's Truth]

so the soul can be destroyed

right?

Destroy does not always mean to end it all without any life.

Have you not ever heard that a life of sin destroys one's life?

 

[chrysostom]

Destroy does not always mean to end it all without any life.

Have you not ever heard that a life of sin destroys one's life?

have you heard that words have meaning?

so why would you say destroy when you really don't mean destroy?

 

[rstrats]

God's Truth,

re: "... how do you think the spirit dies? I will tell you how. It does not die."

But in your post #3874 you wrote that: "God is able to put an end to the spirits of men..."

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth,

re: "... how do you think the spirit dies? I will tell you how. It does not die."

But in your post #3874 you wrote that: "God is able to put an end to the spirits of men..."

God is able to does not mean God will.

Not everyone is going to go to the lake of fire.

The scripture says man can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.

That tells us the spirit lives on after the death of the body.