Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[God's Truth]

Do you have any verses that actually say that the lost will burn alive forever in hell when they die?

Revelation 20:10...They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That's really what I am looking for, and would be the only thing that would make me disregard Jesus Christ's statement in Matthew 10:28 that we should fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.

That scripture says God is able to destroy both the body and soul in Gehenna. Destroy does not always mean death, and able to does not always mean will do it.

Let me ask you this, Are the dead bodies in Isaiah dead or alive? I think you can figure this one out. Are the DEAD bodies in Isaiah dead or alive. The DEAD bodies. Are they dead or are they alive? Do you need a little hint? Here's a small hint. The DEAD bodies are dead.

Do dead bodies rest?

Revelation 14:11 ...There will be no rest day or night

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth,

re: "Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

What version/translation is that from?

Which translation does not say eternal fire?

 

[Ben Masada]

If to teach that wicked will be in torment is a sad reflection then it was Christ who taught it.

Do you deny that Christ taught that the rich man when he died was in the place of torment?

That was a parable. Every thing is possible in a parable, even for a cow to fly as long as the point is shown on the bottom line. What was the bottom line for the parable of the Richman and Lazarus? To teach that "Moses" aka the Law is still the only thing to be listened to, to prevent our wrongdoings. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[rstrats]

God's Truth,

re: "Which translation does not say eternal fire?"


I don't know. Which one do you say doesn't say that?


And you didn't answer my question in post #3817: "What version/translation is that from?"

 

[Timotheos]

Revelation 20:10...They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Read the words. That doesn't say bad people go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever. The verse isn't even talking about people. It says the beast and the false prophet.

That scripture says God is able to destroy both the body and soul in Gehenna. Destroy does not always mean death, and able to does not always mean will do it.

That's baloney. Destroy means destroy. He wouldn't say he is able to do it if he is not able to do it.

Do dead bodies rest?

Actually, they don't. They are dead. Dead bodies don't rest. They don't get up feeling refreshed from their nap.

Your doctrine of torture is unbiblical.

 

[God's Truth]

Read the words. That doesn't say bad people go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever. The verse isn't even talking about people. It says the beast and the false prophet.

Prove the false prophet is not about a person.

That's baloney. Destroy means destroy. He wouldn't say he is able to do it if he is not able to do it.

Again, destroy does not always mean death, and able does not always mean will.

Actually, they don't. They are dead. Dead bodies don't rest. They don't get up feeling refreshed from their nap.

Since you say dead bodies don’t rest, why don’t you believe that they are still conscious?

Your doctrine of torture is unbiblical.

Could you explain to me how eternal life is in fact eternal, but eternal punishment is not eternal punishment, since the dead will not know they are dead? In addition, since you say the dead don’t rest, what makes you insist they are dead?

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth,

re: "Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

What version/translation is that from?

New International Version
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.


New American Standard Bible
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.


King James Bible
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

King James 2000 Bible
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after unnatural lust, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[Timotheos]

Prove the false prophet is not about a person.

He hangs around with a beast that has seven heads and ten horns. But if you want to use Rev 20:10 to prove that the lost are tortured in hell, don't you need to prove that the beast and false prophet are human?

Again, destroy does not always mean death, and able does not always mean will.

And Again, Destroy doesn't mean "Is not destroyed" and it would have to mean the opposite of destroy in order for your doctrine of torture to be true. You need to prove that destroy CAN'T mean destroy, and you haven't done that.

Since you say dead bodies don’t rest, why don’t you believe that they are still conscious?

Because they are dead.

Could you explain to me how eternal life is in fact eternal, but eternal punishment is not eternal punishment, since the dead will not know they are dead?

Eternal life is life that is eternal.
I actually do believe eternal punishment is eternal punishment, but I disagree that the eternal punishment is eternal torment. According to the Bible, the eternal punishment is destruction.

In addition, since you say the dead don’t rest, what makes you insist they are dead?

What makes me insist that dead people are dead? If they were alive, then they wouldn't be dead.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I agree with this, and I believe the eternal punishment is destruction.
2 Thess 1:9 "And they will pay the penalty of eternal destruction..."

 

[Timotheos]

Concerning Jude 1:7
Just as S&G were destroyed by the eternal fire, that is how the lost will be destroyed by the eternal fire. Read the account in Genesis. S&G were destroyed by the fire, they were not tormented alive by the fire.

This prove beyond a doubt that the punishment is destruction in fire and not everlasting torture in fire.

 

[God's Truth]

Concerning Jude 1:7
Just as S&G were destroyed by the eternal fire, that is how the lost will be destroyed by the eternal fire. Read the account in Genesis. S&G were destroyed by the fire, they were not tormented alive by the fire.

This prove beyond a doubt that the punishment is destruction in fire and not everlasting torture in fire.

They serve as an example for those who will be punished in eternal fire.

 

[God's Truth]

He hangs around with a beast that has seven heads and ten horns. But if you want to use Rev 20:10 to prove that the lost are tortured in hell, don't you need to prove that the beast and false prophet are human?

However, humans can be beasts, where did I say the beast was a human? Now, prove the false prophet is not a human.

And Again, Destroy doesn't mean "Is not destroyed" and it would have to mean the opposite of destroy in order for your doctrine of torture to be true. You need to prove that destroy CAN'T mean destroy, and you haven't done that.

I have proven it before to you with the dictionary.

Because they are dead.

Acts 7:60
Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Eternal life is life that is eternal.
I actually do believe eternal punishment is eternal punishment, but I disagree that the eternal punishment is eternal torment. According to the Bible, the eternal punishment is destruction.

You have not explained how eternal punishment is for those who no longer know they are alive.

What makes me insist that dead people are dead? If they were alive, then they wouldn't be dead.

Are these people dead or alive?

Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."
1 Timothy 5:6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.

Luke 15:24
For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

Revelation 3:1
"To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

 

[rstrats]

God's Truth,

OK, thanks. It appears that the NIV is the only one that translates it that way.

 

[chrysostom]

the answer to all this lies in the question

do you want others to suffer eternally?
do you think God wants you to suffer eternally?

your answer says a lot about you

 

[everready]

No sir the answer to all of this doesn't not lie in that question, you should be asking if you think God wants you to suffer to which the answer is no that's why he sent his Son into this world "to save us from the eternal torments of hell" Hell was made for the devil and his angels or didn't the teachers from Rome teach you that?

everready

 

[rstrats]

everready,

re: "Hell was made for the devil and his angels..."

I'm not aware of any scripture that says that about hell. What do you have in mind?

 

[God's Truth]

God's Truth,

OK, thanks. It appears that the NIV is the only one that translates it that way.

Many translations say "eternal fire".

 

[rstrats]

God's Truth,

re: "Many translations say 'eternal fire'."

But so far only the NIV (Newly Invented Version?) adds the phrase: "...of those who suffer...".

 

[Ben Masada]

Is the doctrine of eternal conscious torment Biblical or not?

Is the doctrine of eternal conscious torment Biblical or not?

No, the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is not Biblical but from the book "The Dante's Inferno." It is only obvious that the Church found in it a good way to keep Christians in the leash.

 

[Krsto]

That was a parable. Every thing is possible in a parable, even for a cow to fly as long as the point is shown on the bottom line. What was the bottom line for the parable of the Richman and Lazarus? To teach that "Moses" aka the Law is still the only thing to be listened to, to prevent our wrongdoings. (Luke 16:29-31)

Exactly, and this is where Christians need to listen to Jews so we know how things were interpreted in the first century. That way we are not doing exegesis in a vacuum, as most of us tend to do.

 

[Krsto]

No, the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is not Biblical but from the book "The Dante's Inferno." It is only obvious that the Church found in it a good way to keep Christians in the leash.

Yup, it's been a powerful means of manipulation ever since.