ECT IS MATT 19:28 TRUE !!

Interplanner

Well-known member
Watchman wrote:
that the first Resurrection will happen at Jesus Second coming after the tribulation:




But the terrible time was happening right then (Lk 23:30). Their reign with Christ for a long time is what has been taking place since then, with Christ and their doctrine (acts 4) being preached ever since until the final conflict (20:9) before the NHNE.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Watchman wrote:
that the first Resurrection will happen at Jesus Second coming after the tribulation:




But the terrible time was happening right then (Lk 23:30). Their reign with Christ for a long time is what has been taking place since then, with Christ and their doctrine (acts 4) being preached ever since until the final conflict (20:9) before the NHNE.

:chuckle:
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Everything comes as gifts, but when you exercise the gifts, you are bearing fruit. When a person stops doing what is wrong, and starts doing what is right, they are bearing the fruit of a changed heart.
Madists don't want to change, and so they cling to false doctrine because they love sin, and twist scripture as an excuse to live in it.


Hi and let's you prove the above post is twisted , so prove it instead of your OPINIONS !!

dan p
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The 1000 years begins AFTER the LORD returns in power and judgement. This is the ONLY conclusion, when reading Revelation.

First there is the Rapture. All, living and dead who are in the Body of Christ will be taken up to heaven. Some assume the dead will wait until after tribulation, yet this was the covenant with Israel, not the Body of Christ.

Second is the Tribulation, this is where those who did not believe Jesus is divine will face the pain of their rejection of Christ; they will have a chance to accept Jesus and then receive the promise to live in the peaceful Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
The 1000 years begins AFTER the LORD returns in power and judgement. This is the ONLY conclusion, when reading Revelation.







Unclear as usual. The last thing that happens before the NHNE is the overpowering of evil on earth by Christ and the destruction of evil ones and the earth and then the creation of the NHNE. Not 1000 years of Israel's kingdom with Christ.



The time of unusual upheaval was the 1st generation, the end of it, Luke 23:30, locked in place by the babes-become-adults of that verse as well as Dan 9's 490 years.

The Rev is NOT to be used as prognostication of events but pastorally for hope during persecution. The other use of it is insipid.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
The 1000 years begins AFTER the LORD returns in power and judgement. This is the ONLY conclusion, when reading Revelation.


Unclear as usual. The last thing that happens before the NHNE is the overpowering of evil on earth by Christ and the destruction of evil ones and the earth and then the creation of the NHNE. Not 1000 years of Israel's kingdom with Christ.

The time of unusual upheaval was the 1st generation, the end of it, Luke 23:30, locked in place by the babes-become-adults of that verse as well as Dan 9's 490 years.

The Rev is NOT to be used as prognostication of events but pastorally for hope during persecution. The other use of it is insipid.
So completely wrong as per the IP usual.

The 1000 year reign comes before the NHNE. It is so simple that even a child can understand it.

The book of Revelation may be hard for a fiction author to understand but the ORDERING of events is crystal clear and matches perfectly with the OTHER prophets of Israel, Isaiah in particular.

The devil is loosed after the 1000 years are over and BEFORE the NHNE.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
There probably isn't any way to keep some of the D'ists from imagining gaps of time all over; it has been part of that industry since it began in the 1800s. But if there is some 'sequence' to ch 20-21, no, STP is flat wrong. Or else 20:11-15 is not the "final" judgement, considering all that the rest of the book has depicted.

I think you could call it the final because I don't see another taking place in ch 21.

I doubt if the thing is as sequential as these boys think because there is still evil 22:11, 15. If that refers to some other time, or is meant as a warning now, then the passage is not sequential.
 

andyc

New member
Hi and let's you prove the above post is twisted , so prove it instead of your OPINIONS !!

dan p

Well if you regard repentance and the fruit of righteousness as works, then it's pretty obvious you are removing yourself from being obligated.
Your terms are, God loves a useless sinner, and is quite happy for them to remain a useless sinner.

You find that in the bible.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Well if you regard repentance and the fruit of righteousness as works, then it's pretty obvious you are removing yourself from being obligated.
Your terms are, God loves a useless sinner, and is quite happy for them to remain a useless sinner.

You find that in the bible.

"Not by works of righteousness which WE have done..."

You'll find that in the Bible.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
It's true (Sorry to repeat myself but this is so important as it is the future for us all) Christ's government will start in the 1000 year reign and will continue after God makes the new heaven and earth. However, the first resurrection (or Catching away) is for only SOME of the dead and living, not everyone. We are told some information about the first Resurrection group:

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection group will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years on Earth. In Revelation 4:4 John saw thrones for those who have authority to judge, this refers to the 24 elders:

Revelation 4:4
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

12 of these Elders will be the Apostles who will judge the 12 tribes of Israel:

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands who come to life and reign with Christ for the thousand years. This refers to the 144,000:

Revelation 7:3-4
3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

144,000 divided by 12 is 6000 which is how many there is in a legion. Each of the 12 tribes will be judged by one Apostle and one Prophet of God making up the 24 Elders, as this verse tells us:

Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the APOSTLES and PROPHETS, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Along with the two Witness; Elijah and Moses, who will sit at Jesus' right and left, and along with the 24 Elders sitting around His throne, and the 144,000, this will make up Christ's government:

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.

This government will rule over the Earth during the Millennial reign as it says in Revelation 20:5-6, and from the verses below we know that the first Resurrection will happen at Jesus Second coming after the tribulation:

1 Thessalonians 4;16-17
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

At the end of the 1000 years after Satan is released and destroyed by God, the great multitude is resurrected:

Revelation 7:9
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Some will rise to everlasting life and go to Heaven, the rest to everlasting condemnation and go to Hell:

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This is when we will all receive our final eternal judgement and rewards:

Revelation 20:11-12
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The first resurrection is only for the 144,000 everyone else will have to wait 1000 years. After this Christ's government will continue to reign from heaven and over the new earth.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The book of Revelation may be hard for a fiction author to understand but the ORDERING of events is crystal clear and matches perfectly with the OTHER prophets of Israel, Isaiah in particular.

The devil is loosed after the 1000 years are over and BEFORE the NHNE.

:up:
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Well if you regard repentance and the fruit of righteousness as works, then it's pretty obvious you are removing yourself from being obligated.
Your terms are, God loves a useless sinner, and is quite happy for them to remain a useless sinner.

You find that in the bible.


Hi and in Acts 26:20 REPENTANCE / METANOIA means a change of mind , or a 180 degree turn !!

WORKS / ERGON means WORK , DEEDS , DOING , or LABOR and you need look up these Greek words for your UNDERSTANDING FIRST before your opinions !!

Always show you a verse FIRST !!

dan p
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
First there is the Rapture. All, living and dead who are in the Body of Christ will be taken up to heaven. Some assume the dead will wait until after tribulation, yet this was the covenant with Israel, not the Body of Christ.

Second is the Tribulation, this is where those who did not believe Jesus is divine will face the pain of their rejection of Christ; they will have a chance to accept Jesus and then receive the promise to live in the peaceful Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

Fiction
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
The Rev is NOT to be used as prognostication of events but pastorally for hope during persecution. The other use of it is insipid.

Especially considering John bent over backwards to place his prophecy during the time of that immediate persecution (tribulation).

Rev. 1:1KJV, Rev 1:3KJV, Rev. 1:4KJV

Rev. 22:6KJV, Rev. 22:10KJV
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Especially considering John bent over backwards to place his prophecy during the time of that immediate persecution (tribulation).

Rev. 1:1KJV, Rev 1:3KJV, Rev. 1:4KJV

Rev. 22:6KJV, Rev. 22:10KJV
The time is always at hand. Shortly to God may be thousands of years to us.

Till all these things be fulfilled.--Better, till all these things come to pass. The words do not necessarily imply more than the commencement of a process, the first unrolling of the scroll of the coming ages.

it is unlikely that Christ should thus indefinitely postpone a period of infinite importance to his hearers. But there is no necessity for assuming any unusual meaning in the term "this generation." Its plain and obvious reference is to the contemporaries of the speaker, or those who shall live some thirty or forty years longer; this period would bring them to the siege of Jerusalem. And remembering that Christ has drawn no definite line between this crisis and the final consummation, we are justified in regarding all these things as meaning, primarily, the signs preceding or accompanying the downfall of the city. In a secondary sense, "this generation" may mean the spiritual Israel, the generation of them that seek the Lord (Psalm 24:6). "All these things shall surely come to pass," says Chrysostom, "and the generation of the faithful shall remain, cut off by none of the things that have been mentioned. For both Jerusalem shall perish, and the more part of the Jews shall be destroyed, but over this generation shall nothing prevail - not famine, not pestilence, not earthquake, not the tumults of wars, not false Christs, not false prophets, not deceivers, not traitors, not those that cause to offend, nor the false brethren, nor any other such-like temptations whatever."


Some critics have combined the three meanings of "generation" given above, and have seen in Christ's words a threefold reference, first, to the contemporary people; secondly, to the Jewish nation; thirdly, to the Christian believers or dispensation. According to Lange, "this generation" means the generation of those who know and discern these signs.
http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-34.htm


The same reasoning applies to Revelation.
 
Last edited:

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Do you discount what is written by Paul?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV -


2 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV - 12 [FONT=&quot]That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.[/FONT]
 
Top