Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

[elohiym]

- Woman are not forced to marry her rapist

In Egypt before 1999 they were. See: Rapists get off the hook by marrying their victims.

Egypt, where women suffer from constant sexual assaults, also cancelled a similar provision a few years ago.

See?

- Frigidity is a female sexual dysfunction.

There is male hypoactive sexual desire disorder and female sexual interest/arousal disorder. You call the latter frigidity but both fall under the English definition of frigid: unable or unwilling to be sexually aroused and responsive. Although the word frigid is especially used to describe women that does not prove that women are more frigid than men.

- Many times the wife refuses to give sex...

You mean YOUR wife, not "the wife." Certainly not my beloved.

even he shows love and and respect because desire is different .....hypersexual males are many more than hypersexuale females.

I disagree and think don't you have enough sexual experience to claim that.

 

[elohiym]

i cut the rest of your retarded rant

Because you are simple-minded coward.

Ignoring the Law of Moses you made the foolish claim that:

and someone who isn't a total tard would understand that the insertion of the state between that which God has joined together into ONE is as evil as the killing of innocents

 

[elohiym]

No, that thought comes straight from the evil in your own heart.

He simply asked you to demonstrate from the Torah where God or Moses said anything that would condemn any sex between a man and his wife.

Don't be obtuse. I quoted him above.

 

[elohiym]

i had forgotten how pointless it is to try and have a discussion with elo

Okay. I'm going to go have a date with my wife while you stay here and whine about your right to force sex on a woman if she's your wife.

Feel better now?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Don't be obtuse. I quoted him above.

Here is his quote:

then you should have no problem showing mosaic law concerning "marital rape" :idunno:

Here is your response:

You implied Moses and God was evil for inserting the government into marriage.

 

[ok doser]

don't waste your time

 

[genuineoriginal]

don't waste your time

Spoiler

 

[iouae]

1 Cor 7
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

I come away from reading Paul's statement above with the following impression...
1) Paul considers marriage as a contract that each has access to (authority over) the other's body. Don't get married if you don't accept this.
2) To deny the other access (sex) is to default on the marriage contract or to defraud the other.
3) Thus Paul says it is WRONG to deny one's partner sex.
4) Other scriptures clearly shows that rape is VERY WRONG and would be EQUALLY WRONG in marriage.
5) Paul states that if partners are going to deny each other sex, it should be by mutual discussion and consent.
6) This denying sex should only be for extreme reasons, such as fasting.
7) Immediately after the fast, normal conjugal activity should recommence.
8) To deny another sex opens the marriage partners to Satan's temptations.
9) One of those Satanic temptations may be to rape the wife.
10) Other ways may be for the frustrated partner to find relief elsewhere.

This is now my tuppence worth ...
1) If one partner denies the other sex, this is WRONG. But rape is obviously not the solution. Two wrongs never make a right.
2) The wronged or denied partner can initiate a separation for a while. This is a Biblical option, and is used to try to bring the other person to their senses.
3) If this fails to produce results, take it to a minister who should try to encourage compliance.
4) If this does not work, learn to live without sex. Failing this there is divorce which always is the last resort for "the hardness of your heart" or the unconverted "Christian".
5) I believe every person has a right to not feel in the mood once in a while, and that is just tough. Live with it.

 

[elohiym]

Here is his quote:

Here is your response:

I'm convinced you have Asperger's Syndrome or some autistic disorder, and find it difficult to communicate with. Please follow the discussion back to the actual quote I was addressing, the original quote in a series of exchanges.

 

[genuineoriginal]

1 Cor 7
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

Many people who use these verses completely ignore verse 6

I come away from reading Paul's statement above with the following impression...
1) Paul considers marriage as a contract that each has access to (authority over) the other's body. Don't get married if you don't accept this.
2) To deny the other access (sex) is to default on the marriage contract or to defraud the other.
3) Thus Paul says it is WRONG to deny one's partner sex.
4) Other scriptures clearly shows that rape is VERY WRONG and would be EQUALLY WRONG in marriage.
5) Paul states that if partners are going to deny each other sex, it should be by mutual discussion and consent.
6) This denying sex should only be for extreme reasons, such as fasting.
7) Immediately after the fast, normal conjugal activity should recommence.
8) To deny another sex opens the marriage partners to Satan's temptations.
9) One of those Satanic temptations may be to rape the wife.
10) Other ways may be for the frustrated partner to find relief elsewhere.

It is frustrating for many people that they cannot find the verses you mention in point number 4.

This is now my tuppence worth ...
1) If one partner denies the other sex, this is WRONG. But rape is obviously not the solution. Two wrongs never make a right.
2) The wronged or denied partner can initiate a separation for a while. This is a Biblical option, and is used to try to bring the other person to their senses.
3) If this fails to produce results, take it to a minister who should try to encourage compliance.
4) If this does not work, learn to live without sex. Failing this there is divorce which always is the last resort for "the hardness of your heart" or the unconverted "Christian".
5) I believe every person has a right to not feel in the mood once in a while, and that is just tough. Live with it.

Nobody on this thread has disagreed with any of this except the first part of point number 1.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm convinced you have Asperger's Syndrome or some autistic disorder, and find it difficult to communicate with.

Shame on you for accusing another person of having a mental disorder because you lack the ability to understand them.

Please follow the discussion back to the actual quote I was addressing, the original quote in a series of exchanges.

You mean these quotes where you end up being the one that accused God of being evil?

and someone who isn't a total tard would understand that the insertion of the state between that which God has joined together into ONE is as evil as the killing of innocents

Anyone with average reading comprehension skills would realize that the government of Israel was inserted between that which God had joined together, which is why Moses (the government) arbitrated divorce and other marital issues. The government was involved in everything, including the regulation of sexual activity.

 

[iouae]

Nobody on this thread has disagreed with any of this except the first part of point number 1.

Doesn't Paul in 1 Cor 7:5 call withholding sex "fraud"?

2 Sam 13 tells of the rape of Tamar.
Does one have to explain how raping someone makes them hate the rapist? And Amnon's attitude changed from love to hate also. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! to think that rape is an option.

 

[kmoney]

If there is violence involved, then there could be criminal charges brought for the violence along with an immediate dissolution of the marriage.

Do you think you can rape someone without some level of violence? :idunno:

However, since sex should only be legal within a marriage between the spouses, anything that criminalizes sex within a marriage weakens the institution of marriage itself, which leads to the destruction of the society.
The same is true of anything that decriminalizes sex outside of a marriage or replaces a marriage with an abomination.

Rape != sex.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Doesn't Paul in 1 Cor 7:5 call withholding sex "fraud"?

Yes, and he gave his reasons for saying that, then qualified it by making sure the readers knew that this was his opinion of the matter and not a commandment.

2 Sam 13 tells of the rape of Tamar.
Does one have to explain how raping someone makes them hate the rapist? And Amnon's attitude changed from love to hate also. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! to think that rape is an option.

Congratulations for finding a passage in the Bible about rape that can be discussed (as opposed to general statements like the golden rule).

It looks like you completely failed to read the verses.
It was not Tamar that hated her rapist.
It was the rapist that hated Tamar after raping her.

2 Samuel 13:14-16 14 Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her. 15 Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone.​

Tamar, on the other hand, claimed that it was a great evil in sending her away instead of marrying her after raping her.

2 Samuel 13:16 16 And she said unto him, There is no cause: this evil in sending me away is greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her.​

Likewise, my argument is that it is a greater evil to split up a married couple by sending the husband away to prison than the evil of him forcing sex upon his wife.

That is why the crime of rape should never include sex between a man and his wife.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Rape != sex.

You have the equation backwards.

All rape involves sex.
Not all sex involves rape.

Therefore
Rape = sex, but sex != rape.

 

[ok doser]

Do you think you can rape someone without some level of violence? :idunno:

see Swarthmore

 

[iouae]

Likewise, my argument is that it is a greater evil to split up a married couple by sending the husband away to prison than the evil of him forcing sex upon his wife.

That is why the crime of rape should never include sex between a man and his wife.

How do you measure "greater evil"?

We are put on earth to learn "No".
Our parents are supposed to teach us that certain things are "No".
If they fail, prison is there to teach us "No".
If we elude prison, the universe will teach us "No". For instance, if we take drugs, these might kill us or harm us enough till we learn "No".
If a man does not understand his wife saying "No" maybe he needs prison. I do not understand why that is a greater evil.

And interviews with rape victims shows that rape makes them resentful and creates huge problems for them such as low self esteem, suicidal tendencies etc.. Take Joyce Meyer who was abused by her father. This caused her huge psychological damage which she has spoken often about. Why would any man want to risk damaging his wife and then having to live with the damage he has caused? Not to mention that it is against the law of the land in many cases, so he is vulnerable to prosecution.

 

[Rusha]

Why would any man want to risk damaging his wife and then having to live with the damage he has caused?

Because some feel *men* are entitled to commit such an act ...

IF that were not so, they wouldn't be tripping over their own two feet to defend such a horrific act.

Defending such a horrific act is what a defense attorney does for the likes of OJ, Susan Smith, etc.

There is only one person responsible for rape: the rapist.

 

[ok doser]

Because some feel *men* are entitled to commit such an act ...

IF that were not so, they wouldn't be tripping over their own two feet to defend such a horrific act.

Defending such a horrific act is what a defense attorney does for the likes of OJ, Susan Smith, etc.

There is only one person responsible for rape: the rapist.

who was responsible for this horrific act of rape, rusha?

Herewith, a Philadelphia magazine report about Swarthmore College, where in 2013 a student “was in her room with a guy with whom she’d been hooking up for three months”: “They’d now decided — mutually, she thought — just to be friends. When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him. Soon, he was putting his arm around her and taking off her clothes. ‘I basically said, “No, I don’t want to have sex with you.” And then he said, “OK, that’s fine” and stopped. . . . And then he started again a few minutes later, taking off my panties, taking off his boxers. I just kind of laid there and didn’t do anything — I had already said no. I was just tired and wanted to go to bed. I let him finish. I pulled my panties back on and went to sleep.’” Six weeks later, the woman reported that she had been raped.

 

[genuineoriginal]

How do you measure "greater evil"?

Something that can destroy a relationship is a lesser evil than something that can destroy a life.
Something that can destroy a life is a lesser evil than something that can destroy an entire society.
Etc.

Decriminalization of sex outside of marriage and criminalization of sex within a marriage both lead to the destruction of society, therefore they are the greater evil.