Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I translated I Jn. in first year Greek class. I think I have an opinion on it. Unlike other MAD types (you call them neo-MAD?), you and I are for vs against John for the Church?
Says the guy who has been strongly influenced by Robert Anderson?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So what? Are you aware that the latest effort by those at the Dallas Theological Seminary to provide a timeline (Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ by Harold W. Hoehner) is in error as well--and he had the latest archeological evidence at his disposal?
Does that mean that everything which they teach about other things is in error?
Thomas Ice of Rapture Ready praises Anderson's study of the 70 weeks:
"As valuable as Anderson’s work continues to be, I believe that it does contain a few errors, even though this overall approach was a major breakthrough in understanding this part of Daniel’s prophecy."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You opinion denies what is so clearly said at 1 John 5:1-5, proving once again that you refuse to believe any passage from the Bible which contradict your discredited ideas.
I never said that it was. Either the following is true or it is not:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.1:1-5).
John says that those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are born of God. But you do not believe that truth:
According to your ideas a person cannot be born of God just by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. According to you what John says at 1 John 5:1-5 ASSUMES other truths!
All you do is to deny what John clearly says. You add a condition to what it takes to be born of God, a condition which you just make up out of thin air--"John also assumes other truths in this proof text."
You say that you believe the Scriptures but when a specific unconditional statement from the Bible contradicts your ideas you just add a condition.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So was your friend Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum. He says that the decree found in Nehemiah is not the starting point for the Seventy Weeks:
"There are three problems with taking the decree found in Nehemiah to be the starting point. The first problem is that nothing in the Daniel passage requires the first sixty nine sevens to end with the Triumphal Entry. It only requires the period to end with the appearance of the Messiah at the First Coming. It is preferable to terminate the first sixty nine sevens with the birth of the Messiah rather than the Triumphal Entry. The second problem with the Artaxerxes-to-Nehemiah decree is that it is not really a decree. If Nehemiah 2:1-8 is read carefully, there is no decree. Instead, it only grants permission for Nehemiah to rebuild the walls. Building on the second problem, the third problem is that rebuilding the walls is not exactly the same as actually rebuilding the city."
According to him there was no decree given in Nehemiah which speaks of the rebuilding of the city. However,that is contradicted by what we read here:
"And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah, unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it" (Neh.2:5).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Peter preached the gospel for 3 years, he preached that Jesus is the Christ, but had no clue about the cross.
This is a fact.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
:nono:
Peter preached Christ crucified in Acts 2:23-36, with full spiritual insight into Jesus' death and resurrection!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Please quote him preaching the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" at Acts 2:23-36.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The language of redemption and justification of sinners, by the grace and provision of God the Father, was the subject and basis of all God's covenant promises since first revealed to Eve in the garden. (Genesis 3:15)
You cannot tell me Peter was not given revelation and understanding of these truths, when Jesus Christ breathed His Spirit upon him. John 20:22
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evidently you had no answer what I said to you here:
Please quote him preaching the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" at Acts 2:23-36.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Peter preached the gospel for 3 years, he preached that Jesus is the Christ, but had no clue about the cross.
This is a fact.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Your dispensational assertions are not accepted as fact by many.
How can the true gospel be proclaimed, without knowledge and understanding of the purpose and truth of the cross work of Jesus Christ? Impossible.
If such a thing is attempted, only a false and perverted message will issue forth. And Acts 2:23-36 is not false nor perverted.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
There will be no "hammer" or "boom" forthcoming, for MAD idolators possess no Godly power to effectually oppose the true gospel of Jesus Christ and His salvation, which comes by His grace, Word, & power alone.
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Simply read your Bible.
The Lord sent the Twelve out to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, at the beginning of his ministry. Yet, we know from Luke 18 they did not know about the cross.
This is a fact.
Not so Lord!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The passages that speak of the twelve being commissioned by the Lord, make no mention of "preaching the gospel.". That is your language, which is added to the Word and it is not factual.
The disciples were sent out to call men to repentance, to clean persons of evil spirits, and prepare hearts for hearing the message of the promised kingdom come in the Person and ministry of Jesus.
In Luke 18, the twelve were called to accompany Jesus to Jerusalem. Not to preach the gospel, but to witness His prophecied death & resurrection, which they did understand when Jesus breathed His Holy Spirit upon them.
Those are the biblical facts.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luke 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luke 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
Luke 18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
Accept this correction Nang, humble yourself.