Cross Reference
New member
. . . .frustrate the grace of God?
ECT Is it possible that after we have been saved we can. . .
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
theophilus
Well-known member
No...but we can grieve Him.
Cross Reference
New member
I am sure of that but how about frustrating His grace He would give to someone had we not interfered by preaching another 'gospel' that would persuade their faith onto a different train of thinking and away from His grace? I mean for this to apply as well to any Christian already in His care.
theophilus
Well-known member
Maybe I am missing your intent or question...still we cannot thwart or frustrate God's grace. It doesn't matter what we do or say...His grace and His Spirit woo and win His elect.
For example (and it may be a bad one but it suits my purpose):
Moses was 40 years old when he fled Egypt so he wouldn't get caught for murder..
Moses spent 40 years in the Sinai peninsula while God "scrubbed" Egypt off of him and out of him and made him a shepherd.
Moses was 80 years old when God sent him back to Egypt to "get" Israel.
Moses spent another 40 years running around the Sinai peninsula with Israel wile God "scrubbed" Egypt off and out of them.
Was His grace frustrated?
No.
Was He grieved? Yes. To the point of wanting to destroy them and make a nation out of Moses.
Was His grace frustrated?
No.
We have a Savior Who is Christ the Lord. Born under the curse. Made sin Who knew no sin that we might have the righteousness of God in Him.
We cannot frustrate His grace.
Cross Reference
New member
Then what good is a preacher? What is his responsibility?
Lets extend it a little by asking what is the reason for Pentecost in anyone's life, the "coming upon" of the Holy Spirit?
theophilus
Well-known member
Rom. 10:14-17
The same reason Jesus sent the 11.
The same reason Jesus sent Paul.
The same reason Jesus sent the 11.
The same reason Jesus sent Paul.
theophilus
Well-known member
To speak the Word of God with POWER.
The gospel we speak IS the power of God unto salvation.
The Holy Spirit gives us the words.
Cross Reference
New member
And their responsibility was to "own" what they preached. Their message was their life and if their life would have taken a turn the faith in God of others would have been effected, no? And in that regard could be frustrating the grace of God, to whatever degree, we can't say..
Here:
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.". . . "[Therefore, I do not treat God's gracious gift [of faith OF the Son of God] as something of minor importance and defeat its very purpose]; I do not set aside and invalidate and frustrate and nullify the grace (unmerited favor) of God. For if justification (righteousness, acquittal from guilt) comes through [observing the ritual of] the Law, then Christ (the Messiah) died groundlessly and to no purpose and in vain. [His death was then wholly superfluous.]
Gal, 2:20-21 (KJV-AMP)
VS21 from the KJV:
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[Emphasis mine]
theophilus
Well-known member
NASB - Gal. 2:21 - 21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
God KNEW Paul would not frustrate/nullify neither His grace nor His gospel.
FWIW - Paul had MUCH more training in the Law PLUS three years in the Nabataean Desert worth of direct revelation.
I say it is NOT possible for a human being to frustrate the grace of God, because won't let it be frustrated.
God KNEW Paul would not frustrate/nullify neither His grace nor His gospel.
FWIW - Paul had MUCH more training in the Law PLUS three years in the Nabataean Desert worth of direct revelation.
I say it is NOT possible for a human being to frustrate the grace of God, because won't let it be frustrated.
Cross Reference
New member
My point is that we are in the mix with a responsibility to be right with God that we know His voice to obey it. Can we not say that King Saul frustrated the grace of God that necessitated a rectification generations later, found in the book of Esther?
genuineoriginal
New member
_____
saved
rescued from danger or possible harm, injury, or loss
_____
When is the event we are being rescued from going to take place?saved
rescued from danger or possible harm, injury, or loss
_____
2 Peter 2:4-5 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; |
Was Noah saved when he was told to build the ark, when he entered the ark, while he was in the ark, or when he left the ark after it found a resting place upon the mountains of Ararat?
Noah could have refused to build the ark, and he would not have been saved.
Noah could have refused to enter the ark, and he would not have been saved.
Noah could have jumped off the ark into the flood, and he would not have been saved.
Noah left the ark after it found a resting place upon the mountains of Ararat, and was saved.
Matthew 24:13 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
Act 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.
Cross Reference
New member
David frustrated the Grace of God by his acts of adultery and murder all of which could have been the reason for the periods of Israel's captivity.
FWIW: I didn't write was is in yellow.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Why do you ask a question like that without 2-3 specific examples of what it would look like?
Cross Reference
New member
I am not looking for you to argue any 2 or 3 specific examples using someone else as an example..
Use you own life and with that, how do you think you measure up?
Not only that but I have already given you Saul and David, you haven't responded to.
theophilus
Well-known member
No. King Saul disobeyed - which does not frustrate the grace of God.
That disobedience paved the way for David (the man after God's own Heart).
We can do MANY things with and to the grace of God (take it for granted, misunderstand it, ignore it, etc...) but we cannot frustrate it.
He KNOWS we are frail and but dust.
Cross Reference
New member
It did, however, frustrate the Grace God for King Saul, who was promised by God his rule would continue if he obeyed, correct? So, we can conclude that disobedience frustrates the grace of God.
theophilus
Well-known member
Or that disobedience grieves God and distances us from Him.
Or that, if we disobey, God moves to Plan B or C or whatever.
OR...
...there's a more significant lesson or point in here we're missing.
Cross Reference
New member
theophilus
Well-known member
We (humanity) cannot frustrate God's grace. He is omniscient.
God knew Saul would disobey. God needed Saul to know he would disobey. Samuel needed to know Saul would disobey.. God knew David would not slay Saul given multiple opportunities. David needed the lesson from Saul. Israel needed the lesson from Saul.
The lessons are for us, whether or not we are His people. For God's people, we get the OT...partially so that we do NOT repeat the same mistakes.