ECT II Timothy 2: 15 and Dispensationalism's Rightly Dividing the Word of God.
- Thread starter northwye
- Start date
So good to see you again!
Sherman has been on a march to clean up TOL of the riff-raff.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It's no worse than it was before, I don't think. Only difference is, Trump caused the Left to start dropping their masks and stop pretending. They're starting to show themselves for what some of us knew they were all along and more people see it than before. That's a good thing.
But those of us on TOL saw that in action over the past few years.
PS
Florida dodged a fatal bullet this week with Gillum. Whew, that was close.
That Florida fiasco was something else. You know the Dems are working on their voter fraud schemes everywhere. Maybe we should go to dipping our finger in green dye to show we've voted. :chuckle:
turbosixx
New member
That is my understanding as well. The idea here is accuracy as in cutting straight. There is a Greek word for separating/dividing but it's not used here.
I consider myself a dispensationalist but I see the division at Christ's appearing.
Heb. 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
I know where he is. I'll send him a hello from you guys.
That is great, as I thought perhaps that either sloppy Pate, or Mess-hack, might have had him wacked.
Don John
I feel the guh low ree clawd approaching, musty!!!! Puh rayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd! Can I hear an "Amen?"
Right Divider
Body part
turbosixx
New member
Please explain. I believe the us is me. Not directly but through the apostles.
1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1 Thess. 4:2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
Right Divider
Body part
Now you're just completely all over the road.
The book to the HEBREWS is exactly that.
Why do you then jump over to the epistles of PAUL?
Heb 1:1 KJV God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
The FATHERS refers to the ANCESTORS of the HEBREWS.
The PROPHETS are the prophets of ISRAEL.
It's not hard to understand if you just let the scripture speak for itself, But instead, you try to force the meaning upon the text based on the myths of the modern "church" teachings. This has been your problem all along and you give no signs of giving up on this man-made "story".
Rosenritter
New member
So God has not spoken to us by his Son?
Thanks to turbosixx this thread got back on topic,
But Hebrews 1: 1-2 says "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2.Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
Before Christ appeared God spoke to the fathers of Israel through the prophets. and after Christ appeared he speaks to us. Who is us?
If a dispensationalist interprets orthotomeō, in II Timothy 2: 15 as meaning to rightly divide, then that dispensationalist might very well decide that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 is Old Covenant Israel, which is national and ethnic Israel, and which is also the multitude of Israel, and not the remnant (Romans 11: 1-5).
That dispensationalist is "rightly" dividing or separating Old Covenant Israel from the Church, and from Gentiles, but contrary to Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28.
That would mean that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 cannot include a Gentile.
However, from New Testament Scripture, such as that by Paul, 'us" would more likely refer to people saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel. It would refer to both Jews and Gentiles of faith.
Galatians 3 is Paul's most explicit statement on salvation by faith, and not by the flesh, or physical bloodline from Abraham.
The Apostle John quotes Jesus Christ as saying in John 3: 3, 6-7 to Nicodemus, a Pharisee, that "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
But Hebrews 1: 1-2 says "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2.Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
Before Christ appeared God spoke to the fathers of Israel through the prophets. and after Christ appeared he speaks to us. Who is us?
If a dispensationalist interprets orthotomeō, in II Timothy 2: 15 as meaning to rightly divide, then that dispensationalist might very well decide that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 is Old Covenant Israel, which is national and ethnic Israel, and which is also the multitude of Israel, and not the remnant (Romans 11: 1-5).
That dispensationalist is "rightly" dividing or separating Old Covenant Israel from the Church, and from Gentiles, but contrary to Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28.
That would mean that "us" in Hebrews 1: 2 cannot include a Gentile.
However, from New Testament Scripture, such as that by Paul, 'us" would more likely refer to people saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel. It would refer to both Jews and Gentiles of faith.
Galatians 3 is Paul's most explicit statement on salvation by faith, and not by the flesh, or physical bloodline from Abraham.
The Apostle John quotes Jesus Christ as saying in John 3: 3, 6-7 to Nicodemus, a Pharisee, that "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7.Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
musterion
Well-known member
Dry run for 2020, which will be for all the marbles. They won't take the White House so they GOT to get the Senate, to neutralize Trump. Besides, too many people now know what's what, so they have to seize power by any means necessary while they still can.
musterion
Well-known member
REACH RAHT OUT AN' TOUCH YER TEEVEE SCREEN, BROTHA JOHN, AND RECEEEEEEEEEVE THE ANNOINTIN! And send me a $50 seed faith gift.
turbosixx
New member
I agree it's not hard to understand if we just read and believe what it says. Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—
Ima claimin' my mira-KUL today, as I feel the anointin', puh rayer warrior musty!!!!! Give the Laaaaaaaaaaaaawd a clap!!!!!!Puh-rayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Those are our fathers and ancestors because we are descendants of Abraham and we are the circumcision.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
This is turning Galatians 3 upside down. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 3 that, as he says in Galatians 3: 14, "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel and not by that which is physical, not by the bloodline from Abraham. Yet dispensationalism postulates that the Old Covenant continues to be in effect. such that God now has two different peoples and two different programs, one for ethnic or national Israel and one for the Church.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
This is turning Galatians 3 upside down. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 3 that, as he says in Galatians 3: 14, "the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by their faith in Jesus Christ and in his Gospel and not by that which is physical, not by the bloodline from Abraham. Yet dispensationalism postulates that the Old Covenant continues to be in effect. such that God now has two different peoples and two different programs, one for ethnic or national Israel and one for the Church.
Rosenritter
New member
It reminds me of "separate but equal" before the U.S. federal government forced desegregation. "Gotta keep them rightly divided apart from each other" you know. Terrible things might happen if there was one seed of Abraham in Christ.
Right Divider
Body part
THOSE are NOT the book to the HEBREWS!
ISRAEL is the grandson of Abraham. Abraham is the father of MANY nations.
Right Divider
Body part
Fallacious reasoning.