ECT If your not OSAS then your not saved ,true or false?

[God's Truth]

good question

People such as Musterion and you enjoy telling others like me that we are not saved because we do not believe like you; however, you have only shown that you have so judged yourself.


Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[God's Truth]

True, but several posts back she says Christ saved her because He chose to save her and make her obey Him. It's...muddled.

I never said Jesus made me obey him. God does not make anyone obey.

 

[God's Truth]

That's the horror and the beauty of it. Fear is the drive, and flesh tries to outdo flesh to reach the goal of earning what no one can know they've earned. So work piles upon work, which eventuates in pride. It could not be more appealing to the self-righteous when the cross is reduced to an ornament or a totem...anything but the instrument of YOUR co-death with Christ.

We eat Jesus' flesh by obeying the bread of life.

That is how Jesus lives through us, and how we live through Jesus.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jesus was speaking to the lost sheep of Israel, and what he said was the way for the New Covenant. When Jesus died on the cross, then all could come into that same New Covenant.

You want me to believe the New Covenant rules changed without becoming yet another New Covenant and without it's own blood.

Jesus' words are forever, and there is not other Covenant.

When did the Gentiles EVER have a covenant with God? The Apostles
went to the Jews. Later, Paul receives the Grace Gospel and
eventually takes that message to the Gentiles, while the other
Apostles continued to preach the "Kingdom Message" to Israel.

 

[God's Truth]

Also consider why the idea of unconditional eternal security in Christ is so hateful to them: it removes all works of righteousness from the equation. Only the self-righteous would be bothered by that.

When Jesus says humble yourself as a little child, and you do that work, God's will, then you will feel the power in God's Word.

When you do the work that Jesus tells us to do, and forgive all who have done you wrong, then you will feel the power of God's Word.

I can boast in the Lord.

It is never ever shameful to obey God's Word.

 

[musterion]

I never said Jesus made me obey him. God does not make anyone obey.

Okay, if He doesn't make you obey Him, then you admit you are helping Him save you because you said He saves only those who obey Him.

 

[Lon]

if your not OSAS then your not saved ,true or false?

Incorrect, so false. Similarly, if you believe "Nazarene" is the only right faith, it doesn't mean you particularly are a Christian, just that you rightly or wrongly believe something. I'd suspect you are aiming at something more substantial, but the question doesn't address, I think, what you were aiming at. I think perhaps, you were aiming at the idea of whether an understanding of one's salvation must be accompanied by the idea that is irrevocable or such.

I'd suggest you can be saved and mistakenly believe you can 'fall' out of God's hands. Fear, or a number of other wrong ideas, can give you a mistaken idea BUT that, itself, doesn't remove you from God's hand. It simply means you are needlessly fretting over something that isn't in your control.

( I'm monergistic, and it steers my understandings and comments)

 

[musterion]

So GT, we've watched you long enough to notice your pattern. When you are faced with something you don't want to answer, you disappear for awhile, come back, and try to talk about other stuff to avoid it (which is also just like Meshak).

Do you think we who believe OSAS without works is true, and you who do not, can both be saved right now at this very moment? Or is one of us lost because of it?

Yes or no, please.

 

[God's Truth]

POTD right there.

God's grace is not that we no longer have to obey God.

God's grace is that we can come to Him and repent of our sins and be forgiven, and that God will live in our hearts.

God's grace is that we do not have to do various works to clean ourselves from the sins we are sorry for. We only have to believe that Jesus' blood cleans us.

God's grace is that I become His home, in my heart, a heart prepared for Him by repenting of my sins, and calling on him to come.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus tells us whom he saves, and he tells us what to do to become the person he makes his home with.

 

[musterion]

God's grace is not that we no longer have to obey God.

I asked you for the name of any MAD who has said otherwise. Where is it?

 

[God's Truth]

They're co-Lord/co-Savior, which is still the same thing.

God did not give in to Satan and tell us we no longer have to obey. That is ludicrous.

 

[God's Truth]

I asked you for the name of any MAD who has said otherwise. Where is it?

Why are you going against me? There it is.

 

[musterion]

GT,

We believe in eternally secure salvation in Christ without works to get it. He did all the work for us.

You believe in salvation dependent upon one's works in addition to faith in Christ.

Can we both be saved, believing what each of us believes?

Yes or no, please.

 

[way 2 go]

I think perhaps, you were aiming at the idea of whether an understanding of one's salvation must be accompanied by the idea that is irrevocable or such.

I'd suggest you can be saved and mistakenly believe you can 'fall' out of God's hands. Fear, or a number of other wrong ideas, can give you a mistaken idea BUT that, itself, doesn't remove you from God's hand. It simply means you are needlessly fretting over something that isn't in your control.

( I'm monergistic, and it steers my understandings and comments)

I agree

 

[musterion]

I think perhaps, you were aiming at the idea of whether an understanding of one's salvation must be accompanied by the idea that is irrevocable or such.

I'd suggest you can be saved and mistakenly believe you can 'fall' out of God's hands. Fear, or a number of other wrong ideas, can give you a mistaken idea BUT that, itself, doesn't remove you from God's hand. It simply means you are needlessly fretting over something that isn't in your control.

I agree with that much, too, as far as it goes. But the fact remains that 99% of people who HATE the very idea of Unconditional Eternal Security In Christ, if you ask them (and if they're honest) will tell you being justified by God demands works -- either to get it or to keep it. That's a false gospel, meaning they're not saved at all. As I said earlier, I've yet to meet an exception to this, either in real life or here on this board, but I allow for the misled-but-saved people you described.

If one has heard Paul's gospel of grace presented correctly, with Christ dying for all sin (Col 1:13; 2:13; 3:13), the logical necessity is "no condemnation" because he/she died in Christ to Law...hence UESIC.

 

[God's Truth]

Nice dodge.

Telling you we have to do God’s work is not a dodge, it is a teaching from Jesus.

Sometimes I think Meshak is your sock puppet, you sound exactly alike.

If you paid more attention you would never say such a thing. Meshak is a hypocrite. She preaches that we are to obey Jesus, but then she disobeys Jesus by going against the apostles whom Jesus saved.

You're right, it isn't. But to think you can and must help Christ keep you saved is exactly what Satan wants you to believe.

Satan does not want people to obey Jesus.

We all do something in life. Either we are doing good, or evil. Evil is a work too. What kind of work are you going to do?

So John 3:16 and Romans 5:8 are lies. Good to know.

God first loved us is about His creation…it is about ‘us’ in general; for God does not even know you personally unless you obey Him.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God

Did you read that? Obeying God is loving God. Obeying God is loving God and that is how we are known by God, and that is how we know God.

When you say you can and must help keep yourself saved during this dispensation of grace, you are doing the work of Satan. You are one of his ministers or [false] righteousness that Paul warned of.

Paul never ever rebuked anyone for obeying Jesus. You misunderstand Paul. Paul rebuked the Galatians who tried to clean themselves by getting circumcised and observing special days

You don't even know what the saving Gospel of grace is. Do not presume you can "help" anyone.

You have to do what Jesus says to be saved, but I can still speak God’s Truth so that you might be persuaded and helped.

 

[glorydaz]

Incorrect, so false. Similarly, if you believe "Nazarene" is the only right faith, it doesn't mean you particularly are a Christian, just that you rightly or wrongly believe something. I'd suspect you are aiming at something more substantial, but the question doesn't address, I think, what you were aiming at. I think perhaps, you were aiming at the idea of whether an understanding of one's salvation must be accompanied by the idea that is irrevocable or such.

I'd suggest you can be saved and mistakenly believe you can 'fall' out of God's hands. Fear, or a number of other wrong ideas, can give you a mistaken idea BUT that, itself, doesn't remove you from God's hand. It simply means you are needlessly fretting over something that isn't in your control.

( I'm monergistic, and it steers my understandings and comments)

You can be saved and mistakenly believe a lot of things. But one thing you cannot mistake is that belief that causes the Holy Spirit to baptize you into the body of Christ. It's that belief in your heart that it is God that saves and keeps us. A person can have doubts about their own personal faith....maybe I'm fooling myself, and God didn't save me. That's why we are to examine ourselves so we can recognize there is NOTHING in ourselves that can save us or keep us saved but God. Every legitimate doubt is in ourselves.....never that God isn't able to keep us or won't keep us unless we do thus and so. To preach we must endure or we much perform is belief in man....not God. It's humanism, and I've never seen where man can successfully give credit or glory for his salvation to himself.

 

[musterion]

If you paid more attention you would never say such a thing. Meshak is a hypocrite. She preaches that we are to obey Jesus, but then she disobeys Jesus by going against the apostles whom Jesus saved.

And you deny the eternal security inherent in Paul's gospel of salvation by faith apart from works. How is she more of a hypocrite than you?

Satan does not want people to obey Jesus.

Oh he sure does, if it's a wrong gospel preached in Christ's name.

By the way...why do you never refer to Him as Christ?

Paul never ever rebuked anyone for obeying Jesus.

Paul said no one today can know Him "according to the flesh," meaning according to His earthly ministry to none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel, under the Law. We can know Him today only according to Rom 16:25 and Eph 3:8-9. Yet here you are, seeking Him according to the flesh in a vain attempt to save yourself.

 

[musterion]

GT,

We believe in eternally secure salvation in Christ without works to get it. He did all the work for us.

You believe in salvation dependent upon one's works in addition to faith in Christ.

Can we both be saved, believing what each of us believes?

Why won't you answer this?