"I came down from heaven"

[Lon]

I'll take your challenge anytime you're ready!

Er "Veil." There is no challenge you can accept. It is important that one who purports to know the Word of God, know how to read it, Some of us, not just in our own language. When you use a verb for a noun, you cannot possibly understand the scriptures well either. The challenge then is not to have so much false-vibrato with Right Divider. If there is ever a thread where an Arian/Unitarian can get past his/her own severe lack of education, humble themselves and speak honestly and intelligently, I'll try to take a larger part. This entry is merely to suggest you stop posturing above your paygrade with the kind of empty rhetoric that you'd given in thread. It isn't noble.

As a reminder your "big applause for your intelligence" comment regarding John 1:1 was certainly condescending but when you cannot recognize verbs from nouns, your own prowess is in question. Humble yourself a little.

 

[Gary K]

That's interesting. I was having a "discussion" with another member here who claims to have the correct understanding of trinity and who says Jesus or the son did not lay aside his Godhood to become a man.

Anyway, who's son is the son of man?

Just because Jesus veiled His Godhood doesn't make Him any less God. He is our example in how our lives are to be lived and because of that He could have no power to live that is not available to us, therefore He had to live by depending on His heavenly Father for the power and actions found in His life. As you said earlier in this thread everything Jesus did was what His Father told Him to do. Scripture makes this very plain.

Whose son was Jesus? Certainly not Joseph's. He was the son of God, but He also called Himself the son of man for both bloodlines were present in Him. He was the "son of David" and the Son of God. The Bible makes this very plain. He had to be human to be able to redeem us for only a relative of ours could pay our redemption price according to the law of the kinsman redeemer. He also had to be God for our debt that we cannot pay comes from our breaking God's perfect law.

[FONT=&quot]John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

[/FONT] We often underestimate the sacrifice made by Jesus. He was eternal yet risked that part of Himself to come here to live to redeem us. It is a sacrifice that is beyond our ken.

 

[Vail Lifted]

Er "Veil." There is no challenge you can accept. It is important that one who purports to know the Word of God, know how to read it, Some of us, not just in our own language. When you use a verb for a noun, you cannot possibly understand the scriptures well either. The challenge then is not to have so much false-vibrato with Right Divider. If there is ever a thread where an Arian/Unitarian can get past his/her own severe lack of education, humble themselves and speak honestly and intelligently, I'll try to take a larger part. This entry is merely to suggest you stop posturing above your paygrade with the kind of empty rhetoric that you'd given in thread. It isn't noble.

As a reminder your "big applause for your intelligence" comment regarding John 1:1 was certainly condescending but when you cannot recognize verbs from nouns, your own prowess is in question. Humble yourself a little.

My favorite version of the Scripture is the KJV. I reference many other versions in my studies but I've grown accustomed to the KJV as it is the version I first started reading. And I think it's an excellent version!
Anyone who reads the KJV as often as I do could very easily spell "vail" as a noun as that is how the KJV uses it when it refers to the "vail" that separated the Most Holy place from the Holy place.

In your total ignorance, you suggest that a commonly and very easily misspelled word proves a person intelligence?

I think you simply don't like me and don't have the intelligence to make a sound argument for your beliefs so you look for any way you can to try to insult me and avoid being exposed as having absurd ideas.

Have a nice day.

 

[Right Divider]

Two natures what a load of dung that is.

The Bible clearly shows this. So that shows that you do not believe what the Bible says. Yes, you are anti-Biblical.

You make Jesus to have a split personality.

False and fallacious allegation.

The Word was God (John 1:1) and therefore has the nature of God.
The Word became flesh (John 1:14) and therefore has a human nature.

Unless you think that God was "playing games".

Oh let's see .... Well when it wasn't his will to suffer and die he was speaking from his human side?
Laughable.

You find what the Bible clearly teaches "laughable". That's bad for you.

 

[Lon]

I think you simply don't like me and don't have the intelligence to make a sound argument for your beliefs so you look for any way you can to try to insult me and avoid being exposed as having absurd ideas.

Have a nice day.

Is that what you think? I don't believe it is. You started assaulting another's (Right Divider). I called you on it. Simply projecting after that. The ONLY response called for was to "Stop doing it." Not "Continue with inane banter." How old are you? Ten?

 

[Aimiel]

Isn't he the son of Joseph? How is it he says "I came down from heaven"?

Well, you need to think spiritually(spirit) rather than carnally (flesh).

"The words I speak are spirit and truth" said Jesus. His words are therefore the words of the Spirit which dwelt fully in him.So what was it(he) who came down from heaven? He (it) was the Spirit of the Father that DECENDED on the son. The words the son speaks are the words of the Father by the Spirit of the Father. And if the Spirit of the Father is the Father, then it was the Father, by His Spirit that came down from heaven whereby the doctrines Jesus taught were not his own (he says) but the Father's.

If you couple this Scripture:

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

... together with this Scripture:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

You come to realize that Jesus is not only saying that He came down from Heaven but that He is Eternal.

 

[k0de]

Isn't he the son of Joseph? How is it he says "I came down from heaven"?

Well, you need to think spiritually(spirit) rather than carnally (flesh).

"The words I speak are spirit and truth" said Jesus. His words are therefore the words of the Spirit which dwelt fully in him.So what was it(he) who came down from heaven? He (it) was the Spirit of the Father that DECENDED on the son. The words the son speaks are the words of the Father by the Spirit of the Father. And if the Spirit of the Father is the Father, then it was the Father, by His Spirit that came down from heaven whereby the doctrines Jesus taught were not his own (he says) but the Father's.

You have to go further into the scriptures.
Some people say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a good teacher. But is much more than that. Jesus is unique in both His person and His deity. He wasn’t just some spiritual person or very intelligent. He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was a man, but He was also was God (Colossians 2:9).

Are you a Jehovah witness?

 

[Vail Lifted]

Is that what you think? I don't believe it is. You started assaulting another's (Right Divider). I called you on it. Simply projecting after that. The ONLY response called for was to "Stop doing it." Not "Continue with inane banter." How old are you? Ten?

Have you read his replies to me? Apparently not. He does nothing but insult me (like you) ever since i joined this misguided forum. And neither of you address the questions.

 

[Vail Lifted]

If you couple this Scripture:

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

So Jesus was sent to do the will of his Father. And how exactly does he do the will of his Father?

By speaking the words of the Father, by listening to the Father, by doing the works of the Father, by having the Spirit of the Father, by seeing Jesus is seeing the Father....

Now, can you see how he could claim to have come down from heaven?

... together with this Scripture:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

You come to realize that Jesus is not only saying that He came down from Heaven but that He is Eternal.

Lets say that a paraphrase might go: Before Abraham existed I existed.

It's the same thing. Jesus wants people to know that the Father is in him and he in the Father and the works that he does are not his own but the Father's.

I have come in my Father's name he said! If you seen me you seen my Father, again he says.

 

[Lon]

Have you read his replies to me? Apparently not. He does nothing but insult me (like you) ever since i joined this misguided forum. And neither of you address the questions.

Well, just forget this part. We could go on and on with this and it'd not make a bit of difference. I appreciated your post addressing the other thread OP so will look for you there. -Lon

 

[Vail Lifted]

You have to go further into the scriptures.
Some people say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a good teacher. But is much more than that. Jesus is unique in both His person and His deity. He wasn’t just some spiritual person or very intelligent. He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was a man, but He was also was God (Colossians 2:9).

Are you a Jehovah witness?

No, I belong to no Christian sect.

I don't believed Jesus existed before he existed. He was born of a woman. And to be born of a woman means to come into existence. It's what being born means, and I can see the truth of what it means, so I don't find it necessary to change the definition of what it means.

 

[Vail Lifted]

Well, just forget this part. We could go on and on with this and it'd not make a bit of difference. I appreciated your post addressing the other thread OP so will look for you there. -Lon

I didn't join to attack anyone. I'm here for my own benefit.

It would be great if we could discuss things as adults.

 

[drbrumley]

Jesus made it clear that He cannot do anything on His own.

Jesus is always submissive to His Father.

Jesus is His Father's faithful Servant and our Brother.


He also said His Father is greater than He.


He also said that His Father is His God and our God.

Trinitarians dismiss all those simple and clear statements of Jesus.

Same ole Meshak, garbage in, garbage out....as has been told to you already, so here is a reminder, is we do not dismiss them....they are there for all to see. And we accept them as is. Unlike you, who DOES dismiss John 1:1-15, wanting basically to rip that particular passage right out of the bible.

 

[drbrumley]

I don't believed Jesus existed before he existed.

Great another Christ didn't exist prior to birth apologist!

He was born of a woman. And to be born of a woman means to come into existence. It's what being born means,

Not necessarily. God's son was indeed born, as a human. So yes, for Him to get here, it had to be this way. Was God born?

 

[Aimiel]

So Jesus was sent to do the will of his Father. And how exactly does he do the will of his Father? By speaking the words of the Father, by listening to the Father, by doing the works of the Father, by having the Spirit of the Father, by seeing Jesus is seeing the Father... Now, can you see how he could claim to have come down from heaven?

Lets say that a paraphrase might go: Before Abraham existed I existed. It's the same thing. Jesus wants people to know that the Father is in him and he in the Father and the works that he does are not his own but the Father's. I have come in my Father's name he said! If you seen me you seen my Father, again he says.

He also said that His Father was greater than Himself. He doesn't make Himself less than God by saying so, merely that there is a hierarchy in Heaven, The Father being above, but Jesus still contains all the fullness of The Godhead, Bodily. They are One, though separate. The Holy Spirit, also, is God.

 

[Vail Lifted]

Great another Christ didn't exist prior to birth apologist!



Not necessarily. God's son was indeed born, as a human. So yes, for Him to get here, it had to be this way. Was God born?

Let's be true to the words and their definitions.

To say God's son was born is to say that God's son came into existence. It's not me who wants to be false according to the definition of words.

 

[drbrumley]

Let's be true to the words and their definitions

I agree.

To say God's son was born is to say that God's son came into existence.

As a human being yes..this is where the majority of you anti trins get mixed up...concepts escape yall all the time for some reason.

It's not me who wants to be false according to the definition of words.

Ditto..

 

[Vail Lifted]

He also said that His Father was greater than Himself. He doesn't make Himself less than God by saying so, merely that there is a hierarchy in Heaven, The Father being above, but Jesus still contains all the fullness of The Godhead, Bodily. They are One, though separate. The Holy Spirit, also, is God.

There's a hierarchy in the trinity?

They're co-equal but not co-equal?

I'm co-equal with my Father BUT He is greater than I?

Why not skip the co-equal language and simply say that Jesus' Father is greater than Jesus?

 

[Vail Lifted]

I agree.



As a human being yes..this is where the majority of you anti trins get mixed up...concepts escape yall all the time for some reason.



Ditto..

As a human being, who came into existence? The son of God?

I thought the son of God is co-equal with God? God did not come into existence.

 

[Right Divider]

No, I belong to no Christian sect.

That was quite obvious.

I don't believed Jesus existed before he existed. He was born of a woman. And to be born of a woman means to come into existence. It's what being born means, and I can see the truth of what it means, so I don't find it necessary to change the definition of what it means.

Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

​

Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

It is so simple to see that He is the eternal God that took upon Himself humanity.