I Am Pro-Abortion

Buzzword

Buzzword

New member
"An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn). Abortion is a moral right — which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?"
-Ayn Rand

I am pro-abortion like I’m pro-knee-replacement and pro-chemotherapy and pro-cataract surgery. As the last protection against ill-conceived childbearing when all else fails, abortion is part of a set of tools that help women and men to form the families of their choosing. I believe that abortion care is a positive social good. I suspect that a lot of other people secretly believe the same thing. And I think it’s time we said so.

As an aside, I’m also pro-choice. Choice is about who gets to make the decision. The question of whether and when we bring a new life into the world is, to my mind, one of the most important decisions a person can make. It is too big a decision for us to make for each other, and especially for perfect strangers.

But independent of who owns the decision, I’m pro on the procedure, and I’ve decided that it’s time, for once and for all, to count it out on my 10 fingers.
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I Am Pro Abortion: 10 Reasons Why We Must Support the Procedure and the Choice
 
Stripe

Stripe

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People who deny the right to life of innocent human beings have no rights.
 
Traditio

Traditio

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Buzzword said:
"An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn). Abortion is a moral right — which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?"
-Ayn Rand
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She seems to me to be entirely correct. It seems difficult to understand how a potential human being can be a subject of right. I deny, however, her premise: that unborn children are not actual human beings/persons. I certainly affirm that they are subsistent individuals of a rational nature.

"But they are not rational in second act (ie, they don't actually display signs of thought)."

But so what? Even if true, they are still rational in first act (ie, they are the kinds of things who are rational). Since every univocal agent generates its specific likeness, and the parents are univocal agents, it follows that their product is specifically like themselves (i.e., they have produced human offspring), namely, something which is like them both in genus (animal) and species (rational). If you assert that their product is something other than a human being or human person, you end up denying that they have produced something specifically like themselves (which denial is, of course, false).
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Traditio said:
It seems difficult to understand how a potential human being can be a subject of right.
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God forms that human being in the womb, and He has the right to finish what He started.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

New member
elohiym said:
God forms that human being in the womb, and He has the right to finish what He started.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."
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Argument holds little weight if you don't subscribe to the Christian idea of God.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Quetzal said:
Argument holds little weight if you don't subscribe to the Christian idea of God.
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Agreed. For the agnostic et al:

In the United States there are Federal and State fetal homicide laws; obviously some children have a right to life at any gestational age.
 
Traditio

Traditio

BANNED
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elohiym said:
Did God have the right to form you in your mother's womb? A simple yes will suffice.
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Elo., I'm afraid that you've misunderstood me. I'm not arguing in favor of abortion. I'm disputing the premise that the fetus is only a "potential (i.e., not actual)" human being. Note that you presuppose as much when you say "God formed that human being," etc. Did He form a human being in act (ie, actually) or in potency (ie, potentially)? I say the former.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Traditio said:
Elo., I'm afraid that you've misunderstood me. I'm not arguing in favor of abortion. I'm disputing the premise that the fetus is only a "potential (i.e., not actual)" human being.
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I realize that, Trad. Within your post you presented a dilemma and I responded with my answer.

Traditio said:
Note that you presuppose as much when you say "God formed that human being," etc. Did He form a human being in act (ie, actually) or in potency (ie, potentially)? I say the former.
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It matters not. God has the right to finish the process He started, and nobody has the right to interfere.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Buzzword said:
"An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn). Abortion is a moral right — which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?"
-Ayn Rand



I Am Pro Abortion: 10 Reasons Why We Must Support the Procedure and the Choice
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Although I do not believe abortion is murder, it is ending the potential for human life.

Thus, it should not be considered lightly.

One scripture that makes it clear is Genesis 2:7 God formed man of the dust of the ground but did not become a living soul until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

Until Adam was a living soul, he was not a living soul

That being said, abortion clinics should not be supported by the Federal government. Why should taxpayers pay for the personal decisions of others?

The fetus is an attachment to the mother's body, it is not a separate entity and should not be treated as such.

Who isn't pro- life in the general sense and pro choice in the general sense?
 
Rusha

Rusha

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Buzzword said:
"An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn). Abortion is a moral right — which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?"
-Ayn Rand
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It isn't just her life involved. By no act of his/her own, the unborn baby is conceived ...

IF it were only about *her* body, there would be no objection. That simply isn't the case.

As you well know, there are superior choices that do not involve intentionally killing one's own child because the mom (I use that word loosely) is inconvenienced.
 
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