How Jesus Justifies Ungodly Sinners and Reconciles the World unto God

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:19. Which is the Gospel.

These are two very important scriptures. You will either love these scriptures or you will hate them. As for me, I love them. Calvinist and Catholics hate them.

What these scriptures are really saying is that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and that Jesus is now "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Some will say how can that be, the whole world is still full of sin? This is where the believer is separated from the unbeliever. How can we believe and have faith in Jesus when the whole world is still full of sin and wickedness? We who are Christians believe it because God says that its so.

In the Old Testament they believed that God was going to provide them with a savior. Many of them died waiting, Hebrews 11:39. But they died believing and were justified. Faith in God's promises justifies.

Same thing for today. We believe God and we are justified by faith, just like Abraham, Romans 4:3. We believe that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners and reconciles the world unto God because the Bible says so. We believe the Gospel.

When God received Jesus back into heaven we were also accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been crucified with him, resurrected with him and are now in Christ at the right hand of God in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. When God looks at us all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. We are in Christ and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:1, 2, 3.

No one needs to be predestinated if God has ALREADY reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ. No one needs to join the Catholic church if God has ALREADY justified ungodly sinners.

The big question is do you believe this Gospel? To believe it brings peace and joy. To not believe it brings eternal damnation.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Robert Pate said:
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
Click to expand...
In context, Paul is referring specifically to "the works of the law," that is, the Mosaic Law. Catholics affirm Paul's statement wholeheartedly.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Click to expand...
ministry of reconciliation: The ministry of the apostles is to reunite the human family with the Father. For this to happen, the barrier of sin that separates them must be torn down by the sacramental and evangelistic actions of the Church (Mt. 26:28; Jn. 20:23; Ac. 2:38).

not counting their trespasses: Essential to our reconciliation with God but not equivalent to it. Forgiveness, though it includes the nonimputation of sin (Rom. 4:6-8), is based on a true removal of guilt (Ps. 103:12) by the cleansing power of the Sacraments (Jn. 20:23; Ac. 22:16; Jas. 5:14-15). This is why Paul describes the believer as "a new creation" in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).*​

These are two very important scriptures...Catholics hate them.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Catholics were learning and following these biblical texts for a millennium-and-a-half before a single Protestant like yourself ever managed to stumble onto the scene. It is merely your preferred (mis)interpretations of these texts that we "hate." Big difference there.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


________
* S. Hahn & C. Mitch, eds. IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE: NEW TESTAMENT (Ignatius Press, 2010), p. 320.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation" 2 Corinthians 5:19. Which is the Gospel.

These are two very important scriptures. You will either love these scriptures or you will hate them. As for me, I love them. Calvinist and Catholics hate them.

What these scriptures are really saying is that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and that Jesus is now "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Some will say how can that be, the whole world is still full of sin? This is where the believer is separated from the unbeliever. How can we believe and have faith in Jesus when the whole world is still full of sin and wickedness? We who are Christians believe it because God says that its so.

In the Old Testament they believed that God was going to provide them with a savior. Many of them died waiting, Hebrews 11:39. But they died believing and were justified. Faith in God's promises justifies.

Same thing for today. We believe God and we are justified by faith, just like Abraham, Romans 4:3. We believe that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners and reconciles the world unto God because the Bible says so. We believe the Gospel.

When God received Jesus back into heaven we were also accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been crucified with him, resurrected with him and are now in Christ at the right hand of God in heaven, Ephesians 2:6. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. When God looks at us all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. We are in Christ and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:1, 2, 3.

No one needs to be predestinated if God has ALREADY reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ. No one needs to join the Catholic church if God has ALREADY justified ungodly sinners.

The big question is do you believe this Gospel? To believe it brings peace and joy. To not believe it brings eternal damnation.
Click to expand...

You teach salvation by works, by what a person does !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cruciform said:
In context, Paul is referring specifically to "the works of the law," that is, the Mosaic Law. Catholics affirm Paul's statement wholeheartedly.


ministry of reconciliation: The ministry of the apostles is to reunite the human family with the Father. For this to happen, the barrier of sin that separates them must be torn down by the sacramental and evangelistic actions of the Church (Mt. 26:28; Jn. 20:23; Ac. 2:38).

not counting their trespasses: Essential to our reconciliation with God but not equivalent to it. Forgiveness, though it includes the nonimputation of sin (Rom. 4:6-8), is based on a true removal of guilt (Ps. 103:12) by the cleansing power of the Sacraments (Jn. 20:23; Ac. 22:16; Jas. 5:14-15). This is why Paul describes the believer as "a new creation" in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).*​


Nonsense. Catholics were learning and following these biblical texts for a millennium-and-a-half before a single Protestant like yourself ever managed to stumble onto the scene. It is merely your preferred (mis)interpretations of these texts that we "hate." Big difference there.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


________
* S. Hahn & C. Mitch, eds. IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE: NEW TESTAMENT (Ignatius Press, 2010), p. 320.
Click to expand...


You like the Calvinist, interpret every thing in the light of Catholicism.

Jesus Christ is the justifier of the ungodly, Romans 4:5.

Jesus Christ is the reconciler of the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

You and your Catholic religion had NOTHING, absolutly nothing to do with justifying the ungodly or reconciling the world unto God.

You try to do in the flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Robert Pate said:
You like the Calvinist, interpret every thing in the light of Catholicism.
Click to expand...
Of course I do, just as you interpret everything in the light of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s). Now, which one of our doctrinal traditions is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., and which therefore possesses the authority of Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15)? I contend that it is the Catholic Church. If you disagree, then simply demonstrate that your favored man-made sect is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D. Which is it?

Jesus Christ is the justifier of the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Jesus Christ is the reconciler of the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Click to expand...
Amen.

You and your Catholic religion had NOTHING, absolutly nothing to do with justifying the ungodly or reconciling the world unto God.
Click to expand...
...according to the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, anyway. (See my first answer above.)

You try to do in the flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Straw Man Fallacy.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Cruciform said:
Of course I do, just as you interpret everything in the light of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s). Now, which one of our doctrinal traditions is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D., and which therefore possesses the authority of Jesus Christ himself (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15)? I contend that it is the Catholic Church. If you disagree, then simply demonstrate that your favored man-made sect is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself in 33 A.D. Which is it?


Amen.


...according to the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, anyway. (See my first answer above.)


Straw Man Fallacy.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
Click to expand...


Catholicism is the religion of man. It is all about you and your works.

The Gospel is all about Jesus Christ and his works.

The best part of the Gospel is that it allows me to be a sinner so that Jesus can save me. He said that he came into the world to save sinners. I qualify.

I am not interested in trying to be good enough to be saved. Jesus was good enough for me. Catholicism is about trying to be good enough. Your very best is still tainted with sin and pride.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Catholicism is the religion of man. It is all about you and your works.

The Gospel is all about Jesus Christ and his works.

The best part of the Gospel is that it allows me to be a sinner so that Jesus can save me. He said that he came into the world to save sinners. I qualify.

I am not interested in trying to be good enough to be saved. Jesus was good enough for me. Catholicism is about trying to be good enough. Your very best is still tainted with sin and pride.
Click to expand...

You don't believe the Gospel, in fact you believe that millions for whom Christ lived and died shall wind up in hell lost in their sins in unbelief!
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

New member
Robert Pate said:
Catholicism is the religion of man.It is all about you and your works.
Click to expand...
So, then, you've shown that you cannot demonstrate that your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself. Therefore, the assumptions and opinions that you have derived from your chosen man-made sect---and which you like to spread all over this forum---carry no binding authority whatsoever, and may simply be dismissed as nothing more than the mere traditions of men.

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
You preach a false gospel. Your "REP" proves it. Nobody in their
right mind would believe what you or Nanja say.
Click to expand...


Because the majority here are lost and do not believe the Gospel of God's Electing Grace Acts 20:24; 2 Tim. 1:9,
also known as TULIP, my purpose is not to agree with those in the flesh in order to become popular Gal. 1:10.
Contrariwise, I will declare without reservation the Word of God exclusively, without compromise.

~~~~~
 
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