ECT How is Paul's message different?

[Danoh]

Here is what we read of him on the Berean Bible Society site:

Pastor O’Hair was, without a doubt, the one person who, more than any other, was used of God to establish among believers what Paul, by inspiration calls, “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.” He knew that he had the Scriptural solution to the current theological confusion and preached the Word with great power. His oral ministry (including radio) and his many books had a profound effect on thousands here and abroad. As a gospel preacher and soul winner he was without a peer just because he understood so clearly the truth of the unadulterated “gospel of the grace of God.” The Church, all over the world, owes him much.​

And here is what he thought of your idea that the doctrine contained in the Hebrew epistles is not doctrine for the Body of Christ:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Well, aware the point of this post will be wasted on you, Jerry, I post it nevertheless, more for the benefit of other MADs who might find it of interest.

O'Hair's views were ever in transition; because he was ever in the process of recovering Mid-Acts Truth.

A recovering which depicts him gradually coming out of the darkness that is the traditions of men.

And that has to be taken into account, whenever one reads his writings.

Throughout, he was, in a sense, like Apollos in Acts 18, only without and Aquila and Priscilla to come along and show him the way of God more perfectly, thereby sparing the decades in Scripture it took for him to even begin to see various of the Truths some within Mid-Acts now so easily take for granted as being plain as day, that it leaves them bereft of patience and easily ignorant towards anyone who does not.

O'Hair was basically alone for a time. Just him and his faith in the promise of Scripture to those willing to be workmen needing not to be ashamed before God by being diligent to seek His way more perfectly in and through His Word.

In this, O'Hair's path to the recovery of Mid-Acts had been one of basically just him in the Reformed / Acts 2 traditions he had held throughout even as he was at the same time looking into what ended up his gradual recovering of one Mid-Acts Truth or another, over many years.

Case in point, he came to the Mid-Acts Position on Water Baptism, about 1920, or so.

And at first he rejected it outright.

Further study led him to conclude in favor of what is now known as the Mid-Acts Position on Water Baptism.

In contrast, he continued to hold to Pentecost as the beginning of the Body, for almost another 15 or 20 years, or so.

Throughout, his many writings reflect both his progressive understandings, but also, his mis-fires along the way to much later clarity, on one thing or another.

The pdf on the following site is from a series on O'Hair's bulls-eye findings and mis-fires along the way. It matches what I have found about O'Hair's findings and mis-fires, in my own looking into the history of Mid-Acts.

The pdf is on the following site: one in a series of studies that trace the history O'Hair's findings...

http://gracehistoryproject.blogspot.com/2013/01/lesson-85-early-mid-acts-leaders-of.html?m=1

Acts 17:11,12; Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In contrast, he continued to hold to Pentecost as the beginning of the Body, for almost another 15 or 20 years, or so.

After reading Sir Robert Anderson's books he came to the conclusion that the Body of Christ did not begin on the day of Pentecost.

The pdf is on the following site: one in a series of studies that trace the history O'Hair's findings...

http://gracehistoryproject.blogspot.com/2013/01/lesson-85-early-mid-acts-leaders-of.html?m=1

That study is flawed since there it is said that it was Anderson who started the Acts 28 position. But Anderson's 17 books with Christian themes will be searched in vain for any instance where Anderson ever said anything about a dispensation beginning at Acts 28.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm ashamed for you Jerry and your Bible blender nonsense.

I'm ashamed of you because you call yourself a dispensationalist but you display a complete ignorance about the facts concerning the Body of Christ and the rapture. Here John speaks about the coming rapture which all of the members of the Body of Christ were expecting:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

John told these believers that they were expecting to see the Lord Jesus appear while they remained alive and they were expecting that at His appearance they would be made like Him. There is no evidence that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom that living believers will be made like Him. Therefore, John's words can only be in regard to the "mystery" truth found here and only applies to members of the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).​

We can also see that John referred to this as a "hope":

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 Jn.3:2-3).​

That "hope" is the same exact "blessed hope" of which Paul speaks of here:

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:12-13).​

I can see now that even though you call yourself a dispensationalists you cannot be one because you know nothing about the Body of Christ's relationship to the rapture. If you did you would immediately recognize that John is indeed speaking about what will happen at the rapture--they will see Him appear and then they will be made like Him.

 

[turbosixx]

lol,Still I am asking you if the 12 taught what they were trying to understand in Acts 15:6 KJV before that point in time(A15). You spoke about it but never said yes they did or no they couldn't have(yes or no) and then you number the 12 along with Paul and Barnabas as if they never raised any objection to the matter. If you remember Acts 15:2 KJV and note that they did in fact dispute what was being said you will see the matter more clearly. Again though that would mean that the 12 could not have taught it prior to this and that Paul and Barnabas did,the scripture says so.

Do I think the 12 taught circumcision as part of the gospel, absolutely not.

I'm of the opinion that the 12 didn't have much dealings with Gentiles. I believe that's why it became an issue with Paul and Barnabas. When we look at the discussion, Peter only tells of his converting Cornelius and having them circumcised is not mentioned. Also based on his comments, I don't think he was instructing it's observance because he says "why are YOU": 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? If the 12 were teaching it's observance for converts, I'm sure it would be in scripture but again James says we gave no instruction.

I hope I answered your question.

 

[whitestone]

Do I think the 12 taught circumcision as part of the gospel, absolutely not.

I'm of the opinion that the 12 didn't have much dealings with Gentiles. I believe that's why it became an issue with Paul and Barnabas. When we look at the discussion, Peter only tells of his converting Cornelius and having them circumcised is not mentioned. Also based on his comments, I don't think he was instructing it's observance because he says "why are YOU": 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? If the 12 were teaching it's observance for converts, I'm sure it would be in scripture but again James says we gave no instruction.

I hope I answered your question.

lol, I think thats why scriptures like Galatians 2:9 KJV are so important they show exactly who the 12 were going to. In Acts 15 the issue is if the Gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law.

Now in Acts 10:14 KJV Peter says "no,I have never..." In Acts 11:2-3 KJV those of the circumcision contended with him about eating and going into their house. Then in Acts 11:12 KJV he recites that he is told to do this "nothing doubting" because he admits he doubted it. The issue of the meeting in Acts 15 is over whether the gentiles were to be circumcised and follow the law of Moses or not.

So again until Paul did they say no they aren't suppose to to the gentiles or did they preach the word to the Jews only, Acts 11:19 KJV ? Now after the door was opened, Acts 14:27 KJV the question came up about if the gentiles should be circumcised and follow the law. In post #1310 you ask about the "root" of this same issue about the difference does it bother you to find it in Paul?

 

[Clete]

I think Tam noticed a copy on Amazon, somewhere I never would have thought to look. There may be others available there now but when I bought this one last year, it was the only copy.

I'll poke around and see what I can find.

You can always write Dan S., the caretaker/curator (if he's still there). He and I communicated several years ago about MJS' misunderstanding MAD on some points but he really wasn't in the mood to listen. He is also as Calvinistic as Stanford was.

Yeah well, it was a long time ago when I penned that letter. I've since learned that attempting to change the mind of someone in such a position is a fool's errand. Not that it's impossible but it is just so unlikely that it's hardly the worth the time. You don't get to be in places of leadership in an theological organization unless you're pretty solidly entrenched into the accepted doctrine.

Clete

 

[Clete]

I agree what he preached and what he later wrote is the same gospel. I believe some conclusions are being jumped to instead of really looking at what it takes to get there.

You quoted Romans 10 and said "That's all there is to getting into the Body of Christ but that's nowhere close to being the entire gospel of grace"
If you want to stick with that as to what it takes to get into the body fine, but wouldn't it be wise to go back to the beginning to what Paul actually preached on 3 journeys to unbelievers to really understand what it takes to get into the body?

Look, loaded questions and half veiled points/arguments serve a purpose up to a point but this is starting to feel a little like a salesman forcing me to say no three times before he moves on. If you've got an argument to make, make it.

I can't even tell what you might possibly be getting at. No matter what Paul preached, if it wasn't different than what Peter and the Twelve preached, there's no reason to have to give him that message via direct divine revelation nor is there any need for him to have become an apostle at all for that matter. The Twelve where given the great commission by Jesus Christ Himself and then, after God sent Paul to explain his gospel to them, they decided to minister to the Jews while Paul went to everyone else. None of that makes any sense whatsoever if the two messages where the same.

If you want to know what the early message of Paul was/is then read what is likely his earliest book, the book of Galatians. Read the whole book and then find where Peter, James, John or Jesus taught the same. You won't find it because it doesn't exist. There is a reason why Messianic Jews don't pay any attention to (if not outright despise) the Pauline epistles but love the book of James and the whole rest of the New Testament. It's because what Jesus and the Twelve taught is Christian Judaism and what Paul taught isn't.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[musterion]

"And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth" (Rev.5:9-10).​

No.

Whose priest are you NOW?

 

[Right Divider]

I'm ashamed of you because you call yourself a dispensationalist but you display a complete ignorance about the facts concerning the Body of Christ and the rapture. Here John speaks about the coming rapture which all of the members of the Body of Christ were expecting:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).​

John knew nothing about the "catching away" and that verse says nothing about the "catching away".

Just another Bible blender moment for you Jerry.

John told these believers that they were expecting to see the Lord Jesus appear while they remained alive and they were expecting that at His appearance they would be made like Him. There is no evidence that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom that living believers will be made like Him. Therefore, John's words can only be in regard to the "mystery" truth found here and only applies to members of the Body of Christ:

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).​

We can also see that John referred to this as a "hope":

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 Jn.3:2-3).​

That "hope" is the same exact "blessed hope" of which Paul speaks of here:

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:12-13).​

I can see now that even though you call yourself a dispensationalists you cannot be one because you know nothing about the Body of Christ's relationship to the rapture. If you did you would immediately recognize that John is indeed speaking about what will happen at the rapture--they will see Him appear and then they will be made like Him.

Incredibly laughable Bible blender. Only Paul speaks of the "catching away".

The APPEARING of the Lord that John is speaking about is NOT the "catching away". John says NOTHING about meeting the Lord IN THE AIR. John's calling, as with the other circumcision apostles, was the kingdom on the EARTH.

 

[God's Truth]

John knew nothing about the "catching away" and that verse says nothing about the "catching away".

Just another Bible blender moment for you Jerry.


Incredibly laughable Bible blender. Only Paul speaks of the "catching away".

The APPEARING of the Lord that John is speaking about is NOT the "catching away". John says NOTHING about meeting the Lord IN THE AIR. John's calling, as with the other circumcision apostles, was the kingdom on the EARTH.

John wrote Revelation, he does speak about meeting Jesus in the air.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

 

[john w]

Why do you not believe Paul?

It was just a matter of time before he stunned us with that knock out punch, debate ender, "trump card," "Ace-in-the Hole."

He's another Acts 2 blender,"it all says the same thing" kindergartener, "Replacement Theology" proponent,not even realizing what a doofus he is, when he brays like a ja with his "Don't you believe Paul/God/scripture...?" sophistry, and why most TOL members don't take this admitted bible corrector/mystic/agnostic seriously.

 

[john w]

I repost this not for JerryS's benefit, re. 1 John 3 KJV ff, as he is too "long gone" into his Acts 2 blenderism, "it all says the same thing," "Replacement Theology," bible correcting, "unteachable spirit," sower of discourse amongst the brethren ditch; I post only for intelligent members of the boc, the sheep/babes, so that they will be not caught in JerryS's maze of cobwebs, neurons, ropes, strings, yarn, cotton candy....so that they will not end up like him-an anti-thinker,in a ditch, trying on another straight jacket.

No need to reply, Jerry/"Jenny" S, as, again, I am not Forest Gump, and thus do not attempt to engage in persuasion, disputing, debating with bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, like yourself, as that is like attempting to rearrange the proverbial deck chairs, on the SS Titanic.


Can you dig it? Rhetorical q, as the blender will feel compelled to post more slop, sophistry, and "it all says the same thing" jazz, and show me a thing or two.




http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

 

[Right Divider]

Whose priest are you?

"And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth" (Rev.5:9-10).​

It totally makes sense that you think that Rev 5 is talking about you.

The entire book of Revelation is about the future of Israel. But you cannot understand that.

Revelation was written by ONE of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

The writing in Revelation matches EXACTLY with the prophets of Israel describing their future. Revelation 21 is practically identical to Isaiah 60, which was written specially to Israel.

If the body of Christ was part of a "priesthood", Paul would have told us such. Paul NEVER once uses the words PRIEST or PRIESTHOOD. There is NO priesthood in the body of Christ. In the body of Christ there is ONE mediator between God and men (1 Tim 2:5)... and that is NOT you Jerry.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The APPEARING of the Lord that John is speaking about is NOT the "catching away". John says NOTHING about meeting the Lord IN THE AIR.

When that appearing happens those who will be looking for his appearance will be made like Him.

That means that living saints will put on bodies just like His body when He appears.

LIVING SAINTS!

That appearing cannot be referring to the the appearance of the Lord Jesus when He returns to the earth because living saints will not be made like Him then.

You claim to be a dispensationalist but you prove that you can not tell the difference between the Lord's appearance when He will return to the earth and His appearance when He will catch up the saints.

According to your uninformed view the following two appearances are about two separate and distinct appearances of the Lord Jesus:

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2-3).​

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:12-13).​

Both the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers were waiting for his appearance and they knew that when He appears they will be made like Him.

But you throw your reason to the wind and have somehow tricked your mind into believing that the two different groups were looking for two separate and distinct appearances of the Lord Jesus.

If your ideas are right I can just imagine the confusion which this would cause. The Jewish believers would be asking which of His appearances will be for them and which one will be for the Gentile believers.

They would be asking how is it possible that there can actually be two separate and distinct appearances which are described as being "imminent"? Do you not even understand that it is impossible that therecan be two separate and distinct appearances which can be described as being "imminent"?

John's calling, as with the other circumcision apostles, was the kingdom on the EARTH.

You call yourself a dispensationalist but you do not even understand that those in the Body of Christ will also reign on the EARTH!

You deny that the saints who belong to the Body of Christ will return to the EARTH to reign with the Lord Jesus even though the Apostles Paul reveals that after they meet Him in the air from that point in time onward they will always be with Him:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

According to your false ideas when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up the earthly kingdom we will not be with Him.

Besides that, the call of the Hebrew believers is exactly the same as the Gentile believers and that call is a heavenly calling:

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb.3:1).​

The entire book of Revelation is about the future of Israel. But you cannot understand that.

That is what you in the Neo-MAD camp assert but the facts tell another story. The following passage is referring to the saints who will not go through the great tribulation so the passage is not speaking about Israel because that nation will go through the tribulation:

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev.3:10).​

 

[Right Divider]

John wrote Revelation, he does speak about meeting Jesus in the air.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

There is NOTHING about meeting IN THE AIR in that verse. You are so massively ignorant.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Whose priest are you NOW?

Let's look at this passage:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

It is impossible that the words "spiritual house" can be referring to the nation of Israel because at the time those words were written the nation of Israel had been temporarily set aside. So the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the corner stone is the Body of Christ of which Paul speaks of here:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us...that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross...Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Eph.2:13-22).​

The household of God being spoken of here ('he might reconcile both unto God in one body') and it is the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the chief cornerstone. So the following house is the Body of Christ and all believers are referred to as priests:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

According too your ridiculous idea Peter was saying that the nation of Israel was a spiritual house even though that nation had already been cast aside because of unbelief!

Can you not even understand the simple fact that Israel is not in view at 1 Peter 2:5-7 because Peter would never refer to Israel at that time as being a spiritual house?

Or perhaps you are willing to argue that Israel was a spiritual house even though Paul said the following about that nation?:

"For if the casting aside of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15).​

I need a little laugh so please tell us why anyone should believe that Peter would be speaking of Israel as a "spiritual house" even though that nation had been cast aside.

 

[musterion]

Let's look at this passage:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

It is impossible that the words "spiritual house" can be referring to the nation of Israel because at the time those words were written the nation of Israel had been temporarily set aside. So the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the corner stone is the Body of Christ of which Paul speaks of here:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us...that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross...Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Eph.2:13-22).​

The household of God being spoken of here ('he might reconcile both unto God in one body') and it is the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the chief cornerstone. So the following house is the Body of Christ and all believers are referred to as priests:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

According too your ridiculous idea Peter was saying that the nation of Israel was a spiritual house even though that nation had already been cast aside because of unbelief!

Can you not even understand the simple fact that Israel is not in view at 1 Peter 2:5-7 because Peter would never refer to Israel at that time as being a spiritual house?

Or perhaps you are willing to argue that Israel was a spiritual house even though Paul said the following about that nation?:

"For if the casting aside of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15).​

I need a little laugh so please tell us why anyone should believe that Peter would be speaking of Israel as a "spiritual house" even though that nation had been cast aside.

Whose priest are you NOW? To whom do you, Shugart, personally function as a priest?

 

[john w]

1 Peter 2 KJV

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Referencing Exodus 19 KJV

1 In the third month, when the children of Israel(Not the body of Christ-my note) were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.

2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.

3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye(Again-the children of Israel, not the boc-my note) shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye(Again-the children of Israel, not the boc-my note) shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Isaiah 61 KJV

6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isaiah 66 KJV


21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.

Revelation 1 KJV

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen

Revelation 5:10 KJV
_

The plan.... The LORD God will bless all non-Jews through the nation of His own creation Israel. Israel is created as God’s chosen people, His "elect" for service(holy/sanctify=to be set aside, separated, "severed" for God's use/purpose). God created the nation Israel to have a privileged status before Him as a "peculiar", "different", separated("holy"=sanctified) people:

"But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." Exodus 11:7 KJV

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: ..." Exodus 19:5 KJV

"For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth." Exodus 33:16 KJV

"But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people." Leviticus 20:24 KJV

"For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations." Numbers 23:9 KJV

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." Deuteronomy 7:6 KJV

"Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day." Deuteronomy 10:15 KJV

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." Deuteronomy 14:2 KJV

"Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice: And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken." Deuteronomy 26:17-19 KJV

"And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods." 2 Samuel 7:23 KJV/2 Chronicles 17:21 KJV

"And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant." 2 Kings 5:15 KJV

"For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure." Psalms 135:4 KJV

"He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 147:19-20 KJV

"You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." Amos 3:2 KJV

Zechariah 8 KJV

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.....13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.....23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.



And thus, Israel was to be the LORD God's vessel(Jeremiah chapter 18, 19:11 KJV; Isaiah 52:11 KJV) by which "all families of the earth(shall) be blessed"(Genesis 12:2-3 KJV) through the Lord Jesus Christ. Israel was to be the appointed channel and were to be delivered from the curse of the law in order that the blessing of Abraham might come through the Lord Jesus Christ:

References: Genesis 12:1-3 KJV, Gen.22:16-18 KJV, Gen.49:10 KJV; Exodus 19:5-6 KJV; Psalms 67:2 KJV, Psalms 96:3 KJV, Psalms 98:1-3 KJV; Isaiah 41:8 KJV, Isaiah 42:6-7 KJV, Isaiah 44:1 KJV, Isaiah 49:6 KJV, 56:6-8 KJV, Isaiah 60:3 KJV, Isaiah 61:6-9 KJV; Jeremiah 33:9 KJV; 2 Chronicles 6:32 KJV; Zechariah 8:13-23 KJV; 1 Kings 8:41-43 KJV; Matthew 5:16 KJV, Matthew 28:18-19 KJV; Mark 16:15 KJV; Luke 2:30-32 KJV, 24:46-47 KJV; John 4:22 KJV; Acts 1:8 KJV, Acts 3:25 KJV; Romans 3:1-2 KJV, Romans 9:4 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV; Galatians 3:16 KJV

For eg.:


Isaiah 61
6 But ye shall be named the priests of the LORD: men shall call you the ministers of our God.



This will be fulfilled, occur, realized during the kingdom reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, on earth, when Israel is dwelling in her land and the nations find salvation and blessing through her instrumentality-priest, ministers, witnesses..... This also explains Zech. 8:23 KJV-Israel will be a nation of priests, the channel instrument, for blessings to the world, in the prophetic program:



"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

Thus, the river Jordan now makes sense....The "initiation" rights, for the repentant, believing remnant of the nation Israel, fulfilling their appointed role as a "kingdom of priests," going "through the water"
(Survey Numbers 31:21-24 KJV.) as a priest must, per Exodus 29:4 KJV.


With this context.............of all the people/ things to be "baptized", in the OT, it was the priest who stood foremost. Again-Exodus 29 KJV sets forth the procedure for "initiation ceremony," induction into the priest's office, the "initiation rights", so to speak. The 2 steps:


First , cleansing-a washing with water:



"And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and SHALT wash them with water." Exodus 29:4 KJV

See Leviticus 8:6 KJV


Second, the anointing with oil:

Exodus 29 KJV

7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

The pattern: wash in water, oil, blood(Leviticus 8:21 KJV}


The bible.... a book of details...

The Lord Jesus Christ comes to the Jordan, is baptized(washed), the Holy Spirit comes upon him(oil), and later he is baptized on the cross with blood, on the cross...:



Just as the sons of Aaron were the priests through whom the people of the children of Israel could approach a holy LORD God, so the nation Israel itself will one day be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentiles(not the boc) will draw near to God (Genesis 12:1-3 KJV; Gen.22:17-18 KJV, Isaiah 60:1-3 KJV, Zechariah 8:20-23 KJV..............). It is in this context, that John the B appears on the scene preaching his "...baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel" (Acts 13:24 KJV).



I.e., the Baptist's "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4 KJV) was a method of national repentance, and preparation to fulfil their role, their honor, as "elect" to service(not salvation) as the kingdom of priests God, in His grace, ordained that favored nation to be. Survey Matthew 3:1-2...


All of this awaits Israel's future redemption-including physical. The "If ye will obey...then ye shall be" principle of the law assured that this "knowledge of sin" would be everywhere. However, Israel's failure, the nation Israel soon found herself in need of a Saviour, a redeemer, to restore that which was lost, buy them back. Their kinsman redeemer. Thus while the hope of Israel looked to the promised coming kingdom,under which the physical and spiritual benefits of the New Covenant will be realized, in their fullness, the need of the nation for "through the water cleansing" was first needed.



The body of Christ is never described as a "nation," as its membership is out of all nations.

Acts 2 blenders: It all says the same thing....details, differences, don't matter....


Cricket...Cricket...Cricket...

Masters time, and Miller time.....

 

[Right Divider]

Let's look at this passage:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

It is impossible that the words "spiritual house" can be referring to the nation of Israel because at the time those words were written the nation of Israel had been temporarily set aside. So the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the corner stone is the Body of Christ of which Paul speaks of here:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us...that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross...Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Eph.2:13-22).​

The household of God being spoken of here ('he might reconcile both unto God in one body') and it is the spiritual house of which the Lord Jesus is the chief cornerstone. So the following house is the Body of Christ and all believers are referred to as priests:

"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded" (1 Pet.2:5-7).​

According too your ridiculous idea Peter was saying that the nation of Israel was a spiritual house even though that nation had already been cast aside because of unbelief!

Can you not even understand the simple fact that Israel is not in view at 1 Peter 2:5-7 because Peter would never refer to Israel at that time as being a spiritual house?

Or perhaps you are willing to argue that Israel was a spiritual house even though Paul said the following about that nation?:

"For if the casting aside of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15).​

I need a little laugh so please tell us why anyone should believe that Peter would be speaking of Israel as a "spiritual house" even though that nation had been cast aside.

The "spiritual house" that Peter is describing is those, like him, that are BELIEVING Israel and are going to receive the kingdom.

Luke 12:32 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:32) Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. ​

It is clear from the text and there can be no doubt about this (as you would say).

1Pet 2:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. ​

THOSE are the ones that Peter says make up the spiritual house AND an holy priesthood.

Peter is CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY identifying his audience as HIS PEOPLE and NOT the gentiles.

1Pet 2:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:11) Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (2:12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. ​

These pilgrims and strangers are those believing Israelites that were kicked out of Israel by the unbelieving leadership that was having the kingdom taken away from them.

Matt 21:42-45 (AKJV/PCE)​

(21:42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? (21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (21:44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. (21:45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. ​

James was writing to the SAME group as Peter as can CLEARLY be seen in James 1:1.

You can keep trying to replace them, but you are wrong.

 

[musterion]

If the saving Gospel is, itself, "the power of God unto salvation," leading to the salvation of any who believe it, then there can be no need for human priests under this dispensation of grace.