turbosixx
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Your avoiding again. If that's how you want to play it then I'm out.
ECT How is Paul's message different?
- Thread starter Clete
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Your avoiding again. If that's how you want to play it then I'm out.
turbosixx
New member
I'm not talking about OT. Being baptized in the name of Jesus. Is it anything other than water baptism?
Just shows you don't know your Bible.
The Israelites sprinkled with a reed called Hyssop they shook over the person, place, or object they were "baptizing."
And the Lord rebuked Israel with the question if all they had seen in John's baptism had merely been a reed shaken in the wind.
Put all those books away, Neo-Jerry - pick up a Bible.
Acts 17: 11, 12.
turbosixx
New member
Fine with me.
Right Divider
Body part
Of course the sprinkling with water was baptism. Baptism does NOT mean getting dunked. Baptism is about IDENTIFICATION.
Water baptism is an IDENTIFICATION with cleaning and in the OT there was much cleansing with water.
I suppose that you're another one that cannot read baptism without thinking water.
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
SIX times... NO WATER!
God's Truth
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The Jews did various external washings/baptisms according to the old law. When John came he prepared the way for the Lord and had the people repent and be baptized.
I was baptized two times before I was saved, and then again afterwards.
God's Truth
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Jesus is Lord over all and made his words for the lost sheep of Israel and then when he was crucified his salvation was for everyone.
Paul calls it Jews first then Gentiles.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
Romans 2:9
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
Acts 3:26
When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:26
Brothers, children of Abraham, and you Gentiles who fear God, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 18:6
But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."
I thought you went by Paul?
God's Truth
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One goes from being lost to being added to Christ by Jesus giving one the Holy Spirit after he accepts them.
Acts 15:8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
God's Truth
New member
Don't you know that the Jews had full on baths for their washings?
The bible...A book of details.
Acts 7 KJV
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Romans 3 KJV
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Matthew 28 KJV
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Vs.
Acts 2:38 KJV Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:16 KJV (for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Acts 10:48 KJV And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:5 KJV When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The people of the nation of Israel, "the Jews," were "well schooled," or should have been, in the LORD God of the bible-God is one...-they had "the oracles"-OT scripture. The point of "in the name of Jesus Christ...in the name of the Lord Jesus....in the name of the Lord.."? They were to know that the Lord Jesus Christ was/is the LORD God, fulfilling OT scriptures, the promised Mesiah/Christ, a member of "the Godhead."
In contrast, the "heathen, "all nations," were generally ignorant of the one true God, as revealed in scripture, the oracles, and thus needed to know all 3 persons of "the Godhead," and their name-singular:
"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Notice-"in the name," i.e., singular, not "in the names," i.e., plural.
POTD.
turbosixx
New member
Who is the us in that verse?
God's Truth
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The excepted who received the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures are not that hard to understand.
Show us a few verse examples in the OT law where they did a full on bath for remission of sin and called it a baptism.
Wrong.
Vs.
Good one, bible blender, confused old man Nicky, the poser as a Jew.
Baptism in the Old Testament
There is not a single ordinance for immersion of any person, whether great or small. The person was never applied to the element, but the element, whether blood, oil, or water, was invariably applied to the man, or part of the man. In all the figurative language in scripture, there are many figures of sprinkling, ablution, and affusions, to picture the LORD God's methods of purifications, but never any figure of immersion, whether in the OT or NT. Only tradition finds immersion, but not sound exegisis. Immersion is a tradition, an assertion w/o proof, and thus is merely an assumption, on alleged"scholars'"part.
The first "passover" was a sprinkling on 3 places, and, from that day on, for Israel, sprinkling became a symbol of the application of the blood of deliverance. This is true to such an extent that Hebrew 9:9-14 KJV even the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is referred to as "a sprinkling."
The blood of sprinkling of the Israelites: Exodus 24:6 KJV, Exodus 24:8 KJV; Exodus 29:16 KJV, Exodus 29:20 KJV; Leviticus 1:5 KJV, Leviticus 1:11 KJV, Leviticus 3:2 KJV, Leviticus 3:8 KJV, Leviticus 3:13 KJV, Leviticus 7:2 KJV, Leviticus 7:14 KJV....and on and on....
The water separation :
"Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him. .....But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean." Numbers 19:13 KJV, Numbers 19:20 KJV
Washings with water:
-to pour water over the surface, to rinse-it never means immersion. Hands were washed by pouring water over them..
"But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water." Leviticus 6:28 KJV
"And whomsoever he toucheth that hath the issue, and hath not rinsed his hands in water, he shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And the vessel of earth, that he toucheth which hath the issue, shall be broken: and every vessel of wood shall be rinsed in water." Leviticus 15:11-12 KJV
"Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it. Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it. " Ezekiel 13:11-14 KJV
The word "baptism in the OT stands for all the ceremonial sprinklings, pourings, and washings:
"Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." Hebrews 6:2 KJV
"Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation." Hebrews 9:10 KJV
"And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed." Leviticus 11:32 KJV
This is the only reference to immersion in the OT-everywhere else it is sprinklings, pourings, washings.
But notice:
-it refers to things, not persons
-the immersion was not just for a moment, but for a day until evening
-it was for the purpose of making the unclean clean
-the immersion was purely ritual
-the immersion was entirely for the LORD God's eartly people, Israel
The immersion of one person by another was entirely unknown to Israel. The "modern" rite of immersion finds no proof or precedent in the OT scripture.
The OT does recognize a future "baptism" by sprinkling-the unique and unprecedented sprinkling of the Holy Spirit, flowing from the throne of the LORD God:
"Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider." Isaiah 52:13-15 KJV
"For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." Ezekiel 36:24-27 KJV
That is, the Holy Spirit upon all flesh, per Joel 2:28 KJV, and Acts 2:17 KJV:
"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:.." Joel 2:28 KJV
" And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:...:" Acts 2:17 KJV
The astonishing result is that Israel and the nations, including all animal life(explaining the future no fear of animals in the millennial kingdom), will become filled with the Spirit. In that future day, the so-called "Great Commission" of Matthew 28:19-20 KJV will be literally fulfilled-the future "Spirit baptism."
Self "immersion" was an invention of the Jewish scribes, and it is foreign to the law of Moses. The immersions had their origin in unbelieving Israel, the Jewish leadership, after they rejected their true God. They not only rejected the Messiah, their Messiah, but also the scriptures that "typified" the Messiah and His Spirit, because the sprinkling of the water, blood, and oil, pointed to the application of the Messiah's blood and Spirit. The OT testifies that in the sprinkling or pouring, the recepients were passive, while in self-immersion, the self-righteous man was active. Thus, sprinkling pictured the LORD God's work, not man's, as the LORD God said:
"For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses." Isaiah 44:3-4 KJV
In the law, there is no immersion, or even a figure of immersion-it was a tradition added by the apostate Jewish leadership, the uninspired oral law of self-righteous Talmudic Judaism. "Immersion" is a Talmudic word, but not a biblical word. The scriptures, in contrast, abound with figures of sprinkling and pouring. Any immersion was of objects, not persons, and even with objects, the defiled object was to be put into water. The sprinklings were self washings=designated as baptisms. The word "water" occurs over 500 times in the Holy Bible, but not in a single case does it refer to, or even suggest, immersion.
Correct, D-"sprinkled"-my award winning expounding post.
God's Truth
New member
Right, it is the same thing.
turbosixx
New member
If you look at the verse again maybe you can see what I mean. I believe he is talking about a specific "us".
15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning.
turbosixx
New member
That's the way I understand it.
No, it's name. Get off this thread, as you spam wrong info, on every post, driving the lost, from Christ, troll.