ECT How is Paul's message different?

lifeisgood

lifeisgood

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turbosixx said:
What was the good news about the kingdom?

What was Paul proclaiming about the kingdom?

When did Jew and Gentile become one new body?
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Because for years you do not agree with any of the answers given, why don't you answer yourself so that we can learn.

Please be concise so even a dumb one such as myself can understand (and I ask it kindly).
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
David's sin was not imputed because adultery demanded death under the Law, but he was to be in the line that brought forth Christ. David was broken in repentance and God forgave him. Does that prove he had eternal security as a present possession, and knew it? No, it doesn't.

Give us another example of an Israelite under the O.T., from Moses onward, knowing he/she had eternal security (complete forgiveness of ALL sins and justification from ALL things) as a present possession.

We'll wait.
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The clumsy thing about this explanation is that that "Christ" that came down through him was the imputed righteousness. All the explanation does is show the D'ist preoccupation with a certain view of prophecy being fulfilled to 'prove' two programs is right, rather than what the text of Rom 4 says is true about the OT.
 
I

Interplanner

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JudgeRightly said:
Shifting attention away from my question does not answer my question, IP. I understand Romans 9-10 just fine, but that's not what my question is about.

I'm asking you if you reject Romans 11.

It's a simple yes or no question, that requires either a yes or a no.
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What does it say? You are acting like a pope doing an inquisition, and I have written for 2 years on the defects of D'ist use of rom 11.

You don't know what communication is or how to get there. You can't dictate terms. You have to explain and demonstrate what you mean.

You are afraid to because I will demolish the arguments.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
Precisely. Those converted in the previous dispensation (by Peter) were not in the Body of Christ. They remained members of the Kingdom of Israel.




This is the clunking mistake of D'ism. There is no evidence this was the going approach at all. It's like hearing Mysterion say there was no grace/forgiveness in Acts 2, in spite of Lk 24.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Interplanner said:
What does it say?
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You don't know what Romans 11 says? Is that why you've been so reluctant to answer my question?

Here is what it says:

Spoiler
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,“L ord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life” ?But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”And David says: “Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always.”I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”“Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. - Romans 11:1-36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:1-36&version=NKJV


Do you reject Romans 11, IP?

You are acting like a pope doing an inquisition, and I have written for 2 years on the defects of D'ist use of rom 11.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't care what your experience level is. If you can't answer simple, fundamental questions, none of it matters.

You don't know what communication is or how to get there. You can't dictate terms. You have to explain and demonstrate what you mean.
Click to expand...

Just what exactly do you think I've been trying to do?

You are afraid to because I will demolish the arguments.
Click to expand...

This honestly sounds like projection, especially considering that this is now 3-4 posts after I have asked a question, and you are still refusing to answer it.

So maybe you can do me a favor and answer it now:
[MENTION=17235]Interplanner[/MENTION], Do you reject Romans 11?
 
I

Interplanner

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JudgeRightly said:
You don't know what Romans 11 says? Is that why you've been so reluctant to answer my question?

Here is what it says:

Spoiler
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,“L ord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life” ?But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”And David says: “Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always.”I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”“Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. - Romans 11:1-36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:1-36&version=NKJV


Do you reject Romans 11, IP?



I honestly don't care what your experience level is. If you can't answer simple, fundamental questions, none of it matters.



Just what exactly do you think I've been trying to do?



This honestly sounds like projection, especially considering that this is now 3-4 posts after I have asked a question, and you are still refusing to answer it.

So maybe you can do me a favor and answer it now:
[MENTION=17235]Interplanner[/MENTION], Do you reject Romans 11?
Click to expand...





I'm referring to the summary of Rom 11 that you have in your head. If you have a specific question about one text, let's work on that. I reject the summary you carry around in your head, which you are also afraid to write out, because I will demolish that as well.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Interplanner said:
I'm referring to the summary of Rom 11 that you have in your head.
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You're pretty arrogant, thinking you know what's in my head.

If you have a specific question about one text, let's work on that.
Click to expand...

IP, if you can't answer a simple yes or no question, how do you expect me to ask you more complex questions?

I reject the summary you carry around in your head,
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Not what I asked.

I asked:

IP, do you reject Romans 11?

which you are also afraid to write out,
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More projection. IP, are you afraid of answering my question?

because I will demolish that as well.
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More arrogance.

IP, do you reject Romans 11? (And why are you squirming so much? Just answer the question so we can move forward.)
 
I

Interplanner

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lifeisgood said:
Translation: I, Interplanner, do reject Romans 11.
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The D'ist use of Rom 11 is fraught with mistakes. RD is the leading proponent, and as you can see, he refuses to discuss a detail of either the passage or his summary in his head.

How about you? Pick a detail and let's go.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Interplanner said:
The D'ist use of Rom 11 is fraught with mistakes. RD is the leading proponent, and as you can see, he refuses to discuss a detail of either the passage or his summary in his head.

How about you? Pick a detail and let's go.
Click to expand...

The Anti-Dispensationalist IP's use of Romans 11 is fraught with mistakes. IP is the leading proponent, and as you can see, he refuses to discuss even a general summary of what the passage even says.

How'd I do?

IP, do you reject Romans 11?
 
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