How I KNOW it is God's will to heal all who desire it

[Totton Linnet]

Thats a separate but related discussion. The issue here is that we don't by believe the apostolic era GIFT of healing has existed for 2,000 years nor has God guaranteed healing to us...but that is enough for you to doubt our salvation. You clearly implied that to RD.

I did not doubt RD's salvation and you can accuse me of that all you like...I said he used the same argument as the unsaved person who says "I am not saved...therefore there is no salvation"

He has no experience of the gifts of the Holy Spirit so he supposes that they do not exist.

If you don't debate honestly I will just lock the tread.

I say healing is as strong in the gospel as forgiveness.....pardon might well be the more needful and important, nevertheless the promise is side by side

"son thy sins be forgiven thee, arise take up thy bed and walk"

Paul preached healing and tongues the proof of that is in the churches he planted. He came not in word of man's wisdom but in the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost.

But he warned that false prophets would arise not sparing the sheep...they did arise, they arose and usurped the ministry...the Holy Ghost will never confirm the word of false prophets.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I'll gi ya another chance to answer....on what ground or basis does God heal?

 

[musterion]

Paul preached healing and tongues the proof of that is in the churches he planted.

Again...tongues were a sign to unbelieving Jews. None of you use them in ministry to any unbelievers, Jew or Gentile.

Why is that?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Tongues with interpretation are for edification, Paul teaches that tongues are also for private devotion.

Last chance to answer the question...on what ground or basis does God heal today?

 

[intojoy]

Tongues are a spoken language.

The intercession of the Holy Spirit is not speaking in tongues.

The language of angels is Hebrew.

 

[Simon Baker]

basis ?

 

[intojoy]

Healing is guaranteed according to the passage in Gal 6. But it is conditional upon the confession of the believer.

 

[intojoy]

Because the Angels have hebrew names.

 

[intojoy]

Because the Spirit makes intercession with groaning that CANNOT BE UTTERED

 

[intojoy]

Any more questions Baker?

 

[intojoy]

Tot is really compiling a piece... I can tell by how long it's taking

 

[Totton Linnet]

basis ?

Yes the basis is not for God's benefit but for ours, the cross even was not for God's benefit but for ours. It is US who need faith, it is US who need to know that there is a way to God which is ASSURED where He will have mercy on us and extend His grace toward us.

WE need to be assured of His love and pardon. The cross is that perfect basis for us to believe.

 

[serpentdove]

Please stop mixing my quotes with yours as though I had said it.

:yawn: I quote you exactly. Eph 4:14 :chz4brnz:

 

[oatmeal]

Exodus 15:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

Amen

 

[intojoy]

Yes the basis is not for God's benefit but for ours, the cross even was not for God's benefit but for ours. It is US who need faith, it is US who need to know that there is a way to God which is ASSURED where He will have mercy on us and extend His grace toward us.



WE need to be assured of His love and pardon. The cross is that perfect basis for us to believe.

Hey! He wasn't talkin to u

 

[oatmeal]

Not to mention that Paul also asked for healing for himself (to have his thorn in the flesh removed), but did not receive what he asked for.

Please point out where

Paul also asked for healing for himself

II Corinthians 12:1-10

It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[musterion]

Tongues with interpretation are for edification, Paul teaches that tongues are also for private devotion. [\QUOTE]

I disagree on the second point. The first was true when Paul was still witnessing to Jews first. As pointed out to you earlier, the church at Corinth was in the same building as the synagogue, which led to many Jews, including the leader of the synagogue, being saved. That is why, evidently, Corinth had such an abundance of sign gifts that no other church appeared to have.

Last chance to answer the question...on what ground or basis does God heal today?

As He sovereignly sees fit. There is no other answer today. Some believers ask in faith and He grants healings. Others, including committed Pentecostals, ask in faith and die.

So to claim He has guaranteed it makes Him a liar whenever somebody who claims that promise doesn't get healed. It has wrecked and ruined the faith of millions over the decades and you know it.

 

[oatmeal]

Not to mention that Paul's thorn in the flesh was an evil spirit sent to buffet him by Satan....that's all the beatings, nakedness and hunger, the shipwrecks etc.

Yes, it was a messenger of Satan,

not a message from Satan.

You correctly point out that the messenger of Satan was all the attempts to thwart his ministry, let alone murder him.

 

[oatmeal]

Why isn't everyone healed?

Mark 9:23

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

 

[Lon]

This is fatalism, why not simply sit on your dust and wait to die...

:nono: It simply says God is God and I am a created being for His glory and happy to be there and used, regardless whether He heals me or not. My view is incredibly beyond the flesh. Fatalism is engrossed, yet, in the flesh.

Not satisfactory, Paul explains what the thorn in the fleh was, not sickness but a messenger of Satan, an evil angel who stirred up tumult everywhere Paul went.

You can't force me to agree. You can start another thread on this particular. Flesh is flesh.

Is it more honourable to et answers to prayer or not? upon what do you base your prayer of faith on? James say the prayer of faith will save the sick man

I do get answers to prayer. Sometimes the answer is no, and have an incredibly strong faith in Him! I've seen miraculous, instant prayer first-hand. The reason for them has always been related to a need to share His glory with a lost and dying world. HOWEVER, I'm also saying God can use sickness to reach a lost and dying world as well, else the story of Job should not be in a Charismatic Bible. Throw it out. He was begging God to heal him. The answer was "no."

I would never vilify you dearest Lon...I think you far wrong in this matter

Thank you. I felt "wicked and adulterous" was harsh.

This is false spirituality, while we are in the flesh we care about the flesh...you are as grumpy as heck when you have your colds etc...so it is a spiritual problem too

True, but grumpy flesh isn't a grumpy spirit persay. I've known a few who lifted Him up, while under duress. I didn't curse God and die, passing four kidney stones. I was miserable. I don't believe even my wife, would have said I displayed but an acceptable demeanor.

Sickness is death, don't you understand that?

:nono: I will never, be that sick again. I would rather have kidney stones again, than under the weight of my sin, unto death.

I am a great lover of Spurgeon, he was one of those who preached that sickness was a chastisement, a purifier of the spirit....he was as often out of the pulpit sick as he was in it doing the work of God, his life was cut short by sickness.

Where does this doctrine come from?

When I rise above the material, and the things of God become more important to me.

I want you to show me one instance of Christ imparting sickness upon any who came to Him

Sickness is a result of sin infecting the world.

I want you to show me one person He sent away with the idea that sickness is God's will for them...

LOTS. Here are two: Job and this:
John 9:3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

you can't

I did.

and in all honesty it ought to close your argument.

I'm sorry. It did not.

For we go by the truth as it is in Jesus.

Agree.

That is a careless way to pray Lon, I admonish you...you do not deserve an answer to prayer with such a couldn't care less attitude

I don't, except during the duress. I hate being sick but I love God regardless if the answer is yes or no. I know, beyond doubt, He always answers my prayers.

The gospel way is "seek ye FIRST the kingdom of heaven and ALL these things will be added unto you.
I got news for you...you are not more holy and spiritual than I am. You do not love the Lord more than me....sickness, dire hunger [even shabby clothes] are disablers so far as gospel ministry is concerned. If you do not have the material things your spiritual things will be severely impinged upon.

Matthew 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

I look forward to departing to be with Christ every bit a much as you do, therefore I say to you this hyper spirituality is a wrong argument.

It isn't 'preoccupied' with the flesh, nor does it expect 'yes' to every answer to prayer. My expectation, in sure faith, is that God will absolutely answer my prayer and looks after our needs. He knows beyond me, what my actual needs are and as a Father, looks after them.