Honoring Old Love vs Medical Tyranny

[1PeaceMaker]

Could be, could be.

So men and women could be raping their spouses without even realizing it? Why would God's word be silent if it was a matter of defaulting to "no" within marriage?

Must we draft written consent contracts to cover times of sleep-sex (like sleep walkers who eat and cook) short term memory loss (which can happen at any age, given the possibility of stroke or head trauma) or other extenuating circumstances that may temporarily alter our judgment, just to protect our spouses? I do not want the State claiming the right to take my consent away because I was not prepared to fight them with pre-arranged legal papers.

If I can donate my body to science, I want it known that it has been donated to my trustworthy and honorable spouse unless I orally withdraw consent.

That's our level of trust with one another and it's Biblical. It should be respected!!

 

[CabinetMaker]

So men and women could be raping their spouses without even realizing it? Why would God's word be silent if it was a matter of defaulting to "no" within marriage?

Must we draft written consent contracts to cover times of sleep-sex (like sleep walkers who eat and cook) short term memory loss (which can happen at any age, given the possibility of stroke or head trauma) or other extenuating circumstances that may temporarily alter our judgment, just to protect our spouses? I do not want the State claiming the right to take my consent away because I was not prepared to fight them with pre-arranged legal papers.

If I can donate my body to science, I want it known that it has been donated to my loving spouse unless I orally withdraw consent.

That's our level of trust with one another and it's Biblical. It should be respected!!

There is a passage in scripture where Paul talks about lust between a husband's and wife. It is NOT a good thing. Having sex with a spouse who can't consent is just serving your own lust and is sexually immoral.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

There is a passage in scripture where Paul talks about lust between a husband's and wife. It is NOT a good thing. Having sex with a spouse who can't consent is just serving your own lust and is sexually immoral.

What passage are you thinking of?

And you would have to then assume that sex during sleep or any other time that thinking is compromised (maybe even during grief from the loss of a child, family or friend? Where do you draw the line?) is bad and lust without considering the inbuilt blessing from sex. How can it victimize the spouse if they are happy about it and getting health blessings from it?

 

[CabinetMaker]

What passage are you thinking of?

And you would have to then assume that sex during sleep or any other time that thinking is compromised (maybe even during grief from the loss of a child, family or friend? Where do you draw the line?) is bad and lust without considering the inbuilt blessing from sex. How can it victimize the spouse if they are happy about it and getting health blessings from it?

Doesn't matter where I draw the line. Where does God draw the line. He's your judge, not me.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Doesn't matter where I draw the line.

Where rape is concerned, it does matter which laws you support. Do you want an old woman convicted of rape for making love to her husband with dementia?

Where does God draw the line.

I think God draws the line at Matt 7:12. That's pretty open to different possibilities where it concerns a marriage. For man, we have to get there with our standard as His children.

He's your judge, not me.

Unless you are really a judge.... or member of a jury.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Where rape is concerned, it does matter which laws you support. Do you want an old woman convicted of rape for making love to her husband with dementia?

It may actually fit the definition. What would you call it when person has sex with another person who has no idea who you are or what you are doing.

I think God draws the line at Matt 7:12. That's pretty open to different possibilities where it concerns a marriage. For man, we have to get there with our standard as His children.

I'll have to look for that passage from Paul. In any case, lust can ruin an otherwise healthy sexual relationship.

Unless you are really a judge.... or member of a jury.

How would I vote? Who knows. Not nearly enoughs facts in evidence to make a judgement at this point.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It may actually fit the definition. What would you call it when person has sex with another person who has no idea who you are or what you are doing.

First of all, that denies that we are spiritual creatures, whole being creatures, beings that have not been fully scientifically explored and perhaps never should be....

And two, that denies that our choices affect what happens to us once we lose consciousness. You have to assume we don't have wishes to be respected post-consciousness to call it non-consensual.

If I can donate my body to science or volunteer for research on my living body then I can consider marriage a contract of sharing my body if I want, absent orally withdrawing from that contract. If others don't like that, they can put different conditions on their relationship.

I'll have to look for that passage from Paul. In any case, lust can ruin an otherwise healthy sexual relationship.

Upon what basis do you consider sex during unconsciousness lust based? Couldn't you consider other motivations, such as spiritual, science and health related, quality-of-life related, etc.?

I can trust my husband when I am unconscious because I gave myself to him without reservation and he has proved worthy of that calling. Absent that, what can a couple do but separate to fast and pray over the matter?

How would I vote? Who knows. Not nearly enoughs facts in evidence to make a judgement at this point.

Then think on the principles.

 

[resodko]

Having sex with a spouse who can't consent is just serving your own lust and is sexually immoral.

possibly, but not necessarily

i just finished a clinical rotation in a long term care facility - most of the residents had some degree of dementia and would be considered unable to give consent


... and yet, they still responded to affection and emotion and i'm sure many of them would enjoy intimate relations

if a husband (or wife) is giving pleasure and comfort to their partner, why is it anybody's business but their own?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Boedeker told the jury it was unlikely the 78-year-old would be able to consent to sex.

Under cross-examination by defense attorney Joel Yunek, Boedeker testified that intimacy is beneficial for dementia patients, adding that closeness with another human being can decrease the patient’s anxiety and provide some comfort.

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/t...cle_a12e1e08-d504-55c9-9b38-66d6ccf014a9.html

 

[Rusha]

http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/t...cle_a12e1e08-d504-55c9-9b38-66d6ccf014a9.html

From the article you posted:

A social worker at Concord Care Center, Michelle Dornbier, testified about the mental status exams she conducted on Donna Lou. The test involved repeating three words after three minutes of questioning, naming the year, month, day of the week and what town she was in.

On April 3 Donna Lou scored 2 out of 15. She scored zero on a second test in May and a 1 out of 15 in June.

Dornbier said Donna Lou thought the year was 1941 at one point. She couldn’t remember the words "sock, bed, blue," even when she was given clues.

A plan designed to ease Donna Lou’s agitation and mood swings by limiting her activities and giving some consistency to her daily schedule was presented to the family at a care conference on May 15, 2014.

At the bottom of the page was a question posed to Dr. John Brady, the care center’s physician. “Given Donna’s cognitive state, do you feel she is able to give consent for any sexual activity?’ Brady answered, "No."

Dornbier said family members including Henry Rayhons were given copies of the document. They all seemed to agree this was what was best for Donna Lou. The question about sexual activity was posed because Donna Lou’s daughter Suzan had expressed some concerns about possible sexual activity.

“My job is to respect their rights and their dignity,” Dornbier said. She could not recall facing a similar situation.

 

[patrick jane]

Doesn't matter where I draw the line. Where does God draw the line. He's your judge, not me.

good job, way to "bail" out -atrol:

 

[patrick jane]

possibly, but not necessarily

i just finished a clinical rotation in a long term care facility - most of the residents had some degree of dementia and would be considered unable to give consent


... and yet, they still responded to affection and emotion and i'm sure many of them would enjoy intimate relations

if a husband (or wife) is giving pleasure and comfort to their partner, why is it anybody's business but their own?

i agree in principle - atrol:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

From the article you posted:

Let's see them convict him without a rape kit.

 

[CabinetMaker]

good job, way to "bail" out -atrol:

Maybe. Or maybe it's a good way to remind people that sexual immorality is far broader topic than just homosexuality. God knows what is in your heart. God gave sex to married couples as a gift to be shared and enjoyed. How can you share sex with a person who no longer knows who you are? 1PM has not been through the changes that menopause brings. From first hand experience I can guarantee that her attitudes towards sex will change.

 

[CabinetMaker]

possibly, but not necessarily

i just finished a clinical rotation in a long term care facility - most of the residents had some degree of dementia and would be considered unable to give consent


... and yet, they still responded to affection and emotion and i'm sure many of them would enjoy intimate relations

if a husband (or wife) is giving pleasure and comfort to their partner, why is it anybody's business but their own?

Because what you see as giving pleasure my not be pleasurable at all to the person on the receiving end. How do we determine the difference. I think the daughters had their mothers best interests at heart in this case, far more so than her new husband.

 

[resodko]

... Donna Lou’s daughter Suzan had expressed some concerns about possible sexual activity....

i'd love to know what those "concerns" were

 

[resodko]

How do we determine the difference.

"we" don't

the daughters don't

this falls between a husband and his wife - nobody else

 

[CabinetMaker]

"we" don't

the daughters don't

this falls between a husband and his wife - nobody else

And when the wife has lost her mind to Alzheimer's, what then?

 

[resodko]

the husband, absent any reason to think abuse is occurring

 

[Rusha]

Because what you see as giving pleasure my not be pleasurable at all to the person on the receiving end. How do we determine the difference. I think the daughters had their mothers best interests at heart in this case, far more so than her new husband.

Agreed ... though the wife has already been shown as being given substandard care prior to being placed in the home.