Hindu Prayer Interrupted in US Senate

[Granite]

American history? Surely you know hindus didn't found America, nor was the glory given to one of their gods.

I said history, Nineveh, not specifically ours. In any event the founders consisted of a very mixed bag of men, including church loathing deists, and the Christianity of some doesn't entitle Christians today to a single thing.

 

[The Barbarian]

I found a vid out on the net on this topic. I read some of the comments left. It appears most of the commenters forgot a few things. Firstly, that the men who founded this nation gave glory to a specific God who granted the rights we have,

Um, no. Go and look at all the documents. Not a one mentions Christianity or Jesus. In fact, the founders specifically stated that the United States was not based on Christianity.

and the deity wasn't from the hindu pantheon. Secondly, that the "freedom of religion" isn't the only right in the 1st amendment, there is also a freedom of speech.

Yes, the demonstrators, in trying to shout down the minister were trying to deny him his freedom of speech. He had the floor, and had every right to speak. They did not, and had no right to try to stop him.

And lastly, that no one was forcing any sort of religion on this hindu fellow.

Rather, they were trying to deny him the right to practice his religion, and to force him to submit to them.

He is free to be a pagan if he likes.

As the protesters learned to their dismay. They are of the ilk who believe that their rights entitle them to take away the rights of others.

It appears pagans like to forget it's "Christianity" that has allowed the freedom to be a pagan they now enjoy.

And yet, you seem to think that the people who tried to take away this man's freedom are Christians.

 

[ebenz47037]

The very first commandment. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me. The U.S. Senate in its chambers, for the first time ever, has set other gods, before the God of the Bible. As a government body, that represents our nation, it has bowed its head to a Baal, to seek protection and blessing for our country.

Are there 7 thousand government servants, either elected or appointed, who have not bowed their knees to another god, in the name of diversity and pluralism, for the sake of the safety and security of their job and livelihood?

I do know, that the God of the Bible is a jealous God. If you want to bring down this country, by having Him turn His back on us, as we have turned our government's back to Him, this is a very effective way to do it. This Hindu prayer was actually an attempt to "curse" this nation and not to "bless" it.

This is the type of think Balak hired Balaam to do. The Muslims are rejoicing at this Hindu prayer. Just as they rejoice over our abortion "non-laws", our adultery non laws, and our homosexual non laws. All of these things together and more, set us up for a removal of protection, and a greater curse, to our families and our lives.

The atheists have not a clue what is happening to this nation in the spiritual realm. This is how nations decline and fall. They fall under pluralistic and permissive attacks from the enemy of life, generated in the "air" around us.

I agree with the prayer of the believer........... "Lord Jesus forgive us." Shed your love abroad, and in our hearts.

POTD! :first:

 

[Nineveh]

I said history, Nineveh, not specifically ours. In any event the founders consisted of a very mixed bag of men, including church loathing deists, and the Christianity of some doesn't entitle Christians today to a single thing.

Except the glory was and is given to the God who grants us our rights. What men giveth, men can taketh away. You may not like this God, but you enjoy the freedoms our founders recognized as given by His authority.

 

[ebenz47037]

I think it's a very sad thing that so many people believe that "freedom of religion" means "freedom from Chrisitianity."

 

[jeremiah]

Our government now has "officially" endorsed the breaking of the first commandment:

I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt have no other gods , before me.

The fifth commandment:

Thou shalt not murder...............abortion

The sixth commandment:


Thou shalt not commit adultery..........adultery, and so many other sexual sins are no longer crimes, but permissable choices.

 

[The Barbarian]

If you don't agree with our freedoms, why live here? There are other nations that don't permit freedom of religion. Wouldn't you be more comfortable if you were there? I know Americans would.

 

[Granite]

Except the glory was and is given to the God who grants us our rights. What men giveth, men can taketh away. You may not like this God, but you enjoy the freedoms our founders recognized as given by His authority.

Men give and take all the time with or without religion and in its name or against it. The founders were not some monolithic body of like minded men; they agreed on just enough, barely, to get this country on its feet.

 

[The Barbarian]

Thou shalt not commit adultery..........adultery, and so many other sexual sins are no longer crimes, but permissable choices.

Here you have confused sin (doing what God does not want you to do) with a crime (doing what the government does not want you to do).

Some sins can also be crimes, but what counts for God is whether or not they are sins.

 

[Balder]

And I feel you are as accurate in this assessment as you are of our founding father's beliefs.

I hope you're right. The sorts of opinions I've heard expressed here, coupled with Bob's proposed "constitution," haven't given me that impression so far.

No. Honoring a foreign god who did not grant us our rights is a silly thing to do. Why would you want to? What exactly are you honoring a pagan deity for? Your own personal religion? So what? That's a bit close minded.

Even the pagans should honor the God our founders gave glory to for the rights we have. What's the problem with that? Afraid they will burn in hell for idolatry or something?

Hindus do honor the Christian God -- or many do. In India, they allow Christians to lead prayer in the government, and they also have national holidays for Christians. But the point is, this country allows for freedom of religion and has a representative government. If many of the constituents are Jewish and Hindu and Muslim, etc, why shouldn't their forms of prayer be represented as well? Why discriminate against them and give preference only to Christians?

 

[The Barbarian]

I missed that part of the story, when did someone use force to impose religion?

When they attempted to shout down the chaplain who was authorized to give a prayer.

I wanted to note that force was used to quell the freedom of speech in this instance.

As I noted, some people think that their rights are violated, if they can't violate the rights of others. I'm sorry to hear you agree.

 

[Nineveh]

Um, no. Go and look at all the documents. Not a one mentions Christianity or Jesus. In fact, the founders specifically stated that the United States was not based on Christianity.

Dig a bit deeper. This sounds like a pullik skool understanding of American history.

Yes, the demonstrators, in trying to shout down the minister were trying to deny him his freedom of speech. He had the floor, and had every right to speak. They did not, and had no right to try to stop him.

Are you back peddling here? You said force was used against the pagan. The force that was used was the Sargent at Arms against the dissenting opinions.

Rather, they were trying to deny him the right to practice his religion, and to force him to submit to them.

Rather, they were using the freedom of speech to honor the God that grants the rights we have. Had the gent been out in the lobby praying to his idols, this wouldn't be an issue now.

As the protesters learned to their dismay. They are of the ilk who believe that their rights entitle them to take away the rights of others.

That's not how it went down. The pagan prayed, the voice of dissent was forced to relinquish their freedom of speech.

And yet, you seem to think that the people who tried to take away this man's freedom are Christians.

No one tried to convert this pagan. I think you are overstating your case. Especially when you claim force was used. I tend to believe you haven't seen the vid.

 

[The Barbarian]

Hindus do honor the Christian God -- or many do. In India, they allow Christians to lead prayer in the government, and they also have national holidays for Christians. But the point is, this country allows for freedom of religion and has a representative government. If many of the constituents are Jewish and Hindu and Muslim, etc, why shouldn't their forms of prayer be represented as well? Why discriminate against them and give preference only to Christians?

To be fair, there are fundamentalist Hindus who have attacked Christians and attempted to deny them basic rights, as the nominally Christian demonstrators tried to do to a Hindu minister this time. Every religion has it's fruitcakes and hateful people who don't get the message.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's even sadder when people think that "freedom of religion" means "for me but not for anyone else."

I'm astonished that anyone would support those who tried to shout down the minister. They have adopted the ethic of Osama bin Laden, not the message of Jesus.

 

[Nineveh]

Men give and take all the time with or without religion and in its name or against it. The founders were not some monolithic body of like minded men; they agreed on just enough, barely, to get this country on its feet.

And it has stood for over 200 years. The more folks rely on a pullik skool understanding of American History, the more our freedoms are at stake. As I said, you may not like who our founders honored, but we sure have been able to enjoy His given freedoms for a long time. And will continue, until the re-education takes it ultimate toll.

 

[Balder]

I think it's a very sad thing that so many people believe that "freedom of religion" means "freedom from Chrisitianity."

I support freedom from Christian monopoly of the public sphere, but do not desire that our country be free from Christianity in general.

 

[Nineveh]

I hope you're right.

No hope about it. About 3 weeks of research will prove to you not even a whole dozen of founders claimed deism. As for your misunderstandings leading to your fear, that's something you will need to work out.

Hindus do honor the Christian God -- or many do. In India, they allow Christians to lead prayer in the government, and they also have national holidays for Christians. But the point is, this country allows for freedom of religion and has a representative government. If many of the constituents are Jewish and Hindu and Muslim, etc, why shouldn't their forms of prayer be represented as well? Why discriminate against them and give preference only to Christians?

This nation wasn't founded on Indian principals, nor should our nation have our principals dictated to us by what other folks somewhere else do. Sorry bout that. Guess they shoulda been on a boat before the Mayflower set sail.

 

[Nineveh]

When they attempted to shout down the chaplain who was authorized to give a prayer.

You call this "forcing religion"? Gimme a break.

As I noted, some people think that their rights are violated, if they can't violate the rights of others. I'm sorry to hear you agree.

Seems you are all for "force" : snicker : as long as the "force" comes down on your side.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Um, no. Go and look at all the documents. Not a one mentions Christianity or Jesus. In fact, the founders specifically stated that the United States was not based on Christianity.

Dig a bit deeper.

I have. Nothing. Christianity has no special legal standing in the United States.

This sounds like a pullik skool understanding of American history.

So show us. Would you like to see where the founders rejected the notion of a nation based on Christianity? I would certainly love to see any legal document establishing religion in any way.

Barbarian observes:
Yes, the demonstrators, in trying to shout down the minister were trying to deny him his freedom of speech. He had the floor, and had every right to speak. They did not, and had no right to try to stop him.

Are you back peddling here?

Nope. The Supreme Court ruled that shouting down a person is the same crime as physically stopping him from speaking.

You said force was used against the pagan. The force that was used was the Sargent at Arms against the dissenting opinions.

Since they broke the law by attempting to disrupt the procedings of the Senate, I'm not surprised. You may have trouble understanding this, but the laws apply to everyone equally.

Barbarian observes:
Rather, they were trying to deny him the right to practice his religion, and to force him to submit to them.

Rather, they were using the freedom of speech to honor the God that grants the rights we have.

They were attempting to stop a man from exercising his rights, and they were arrested. That's a crime, no matter what the religion is. Get used to it.

Had the gent been out in the lobby praying to his idols, this wouldn't be an issue now.

It's not an issue to anyone who follows Jesus, or believes in America.

Barbarian observed:
As the protesters learned to their dismay. They are of the ilk who believe that their rights entitle them to take away the rights of others.

That's not how it went down.

That's exactly how it went down.

The pagan prayed, the voice of dissent was forced to relinquish their freedom of speech.

Your freedom of speech is not license to disrupt the worship of others, or to interrupt senate procedings. You've made my point for me.

Barbarian observes:
And yet, you seem to think that the people who tried to take away this man's freedom are Christians.

No one tried to convert this pagan.

They tried to shout him down and to stop him from practicing his religion.

I think you are overstating your case.

I think you're embarassed to be defending these people, and are trying to find a way to minimize what they did.

Especially when you claim force was used.

That's the law. If you don't like it, amend the Constitution, or find another place to live.

 

[Stripe]

Christianity has a monopoly on the public sphere in the states? They'd never let a pagan do prayer in the senate then. ..