ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

[Sonnet]

It's not an interpreatation. It's lexical support for translation. It's not mine. It's the text. You don't get to excuse what I say by demeaning scripture as being my opinion and merely interpretation.

You place an additional particularism on the words. Words cannot pin down their meaning to such a degree as you appear to impose on them. You'd have show why is CANNOT be the case that a generality of meaning lie within the words.

You didn't even have a clue about nouns as verbs or Greek noun forms (and still don't, actually), so you're not qualified to speak on the matter.

Well, since you don;t seem to agree with many other scholars then I can be forgiven my confusion.

Imposed? Please cite scripture.

No scripture exists, but doctrines wrested from the scriptures do.

Will respond to the remainder of your post anon.

 

[Sonnet]

And there's that tired "spectator" strawman silliness again. God has made man the object of His grace. The fact that there are those who frustrate it (lay it aside) doesn't mean He didn't make (poieo) Jesus singular anarthrous hamartia. That covers everyone for everything, inward and outward. What more could God have possibly done?

You seem to have forgotten what you said but a few minutes ago:

You insist man's volition can choose God, but man's mind in unrenewed to do so. This would require understanding the depth of what metanoia (repentance) means (as a noun, and then as a verb).

So we have (your view):
God covers everyone for everything but man cannot choose God.

And yet you still dare to assert that man frustrates it!

You miss the simple meaning of the word hamartia. It's the missing share or part, and is the condition of man from spiritual death. There's a void in man that can't do what you insist man can and must do to assist in saving himself.

If he's truly unable then you won't blame him for frustrating it.

That's because cognitive "action" is the innate functionality of the noun, not a verb. The cognitive action you refer to requires repentance (metanoia, the noun). Yes, repentance is a noun, from which the action comes forth. Repentance is granted by God. Man doesn't "do" it without the noun being granted for the verb to be the action.

God doesn't require what we cannot do. Man can't believe or repent. Only a renewed mind can do so. Only a renewed mind can cognize.

Strange how the apostles preached that we do those very things

Do you know what a copula or gerund are?

I'd have to look them up. Please tell me.

For simple reasons you refuse to understand because you insist on processing everything through a superimposed grid of Deism and Determinism, etc.

That explains nothing. I'll ask again:

Why would Paul agonise over his kinsmen if he understood faith as you do?

It's not. Jesus didn't die for certain OR all individuals. He died for sin.

Election is a ship with passengers, not reserved seats for individuals. "The Elect" is a category.

You're just avoiding the binaries you claim are false.

 

[Sonnet]

Even if I'm correct... so what?

Evidently you don't care about what's correct.

Misrepresentation. Not appreciated.

You only care about establishing some exponential worth for man that man doesn't have.

Look around you. Look at yourself. Take a gander. Do you see functionality? Do you see righteousness? Do you see something that looks like God's design as decently and in order?

Where have I suggested otherwise?

And the only position I've taken is that of scripture. You just don't like it because you've probably been able to cat-and-mouse Calvinists all over the place into frustration with no answers. I'm not a Calvinist,

You claim non-alliance but it remains to be seen.

and I've been communing from time into timelessness long enough to know what the Word says, even if you reject it for your preferred concepts and exaltation of man while demeaning God and denying His Necessity, etc.

Misrepresentation. Not appreciated.

Your position, like mine, is not proven.

If you want the truth, why don't you lock yourself in a room until God reveals Himself to you? Fast and pray. Set yourself aside from everything until God meets you where you are because you're desperate for Him.

I do enough search as it is I'd say. One has bills to pay, of course.

You sure won't listen to me, and you're gonna keep weaseling around to make nouns into verbs somehow, regardless.

Weasel: A deceitful or treacherous person.

Perhaps consider taking that back?

What if there's a veil over the eyes of your heart and you can't see? If I was in the UK, I'd come to your house. I'd spend whatever time was needed to answer your questions and let you pour out whatever it is that troubles you about anything and everything. I'd pray with you, and I'd search the scriptures with you. I can't logistically do that.

I know what it takes to birth Jesus Christ into someone by the Word. I do it daily and weekly and monthly with many in regular teaching. Go find that. Do whatever you have to do. Cry out to God. I'm convinced He will hear and answer.

As far as I am concerned you teach that God did not provide for all men so I could not sit in your preaching of the Gospel.

 

[Cross Reference]

Faith is the hypostasis (underlying sub-standing {substance} reality of existence) of things*hoped*for (which is an English word cluster for elpizo), the evidence of things not seen.

Faith (the noun) is the evidence (the noun), just as faith (the noun) is the substance (the noun) {all anarthrous}.

You need some remedial language help to recognize referents and antecedents. Trusting is a verb. Evidence is not being referred to by the verb trusting.

WHo cares but the conceited.

 

[Cross Reference]

Of course . . There is not a one of us who would not desire universal atonement which would produce universal salvation.

But we are merely (emotional and faulty) creatures, who due to such limitations, must rest in the wisdom of Creator God, and not trust our own speculations or finite understanding of these monumental matters of life and death.

We MUST accept by faith, the teachings of Holy Scripture, despite any leanings our human psychology might impose upon our minds.

The teaching of the scriptures is universal redemption NOT universal salvation, redemption being the enablement for it. Enablement is by faith in the result of redemption which is fact, i.e., Jesus Christ becoming man's advocater before God.

 

[Cross Reference]

That doesn't begin to explain how my position reduces God in such a way.



Doesn't expalin how man as the spectator of his own translation from unbelief to belief has any worth at all.



Opting to believe hardly equates to this. How scriptures such as Romans 10:1ff has any real meaning for you considering what you think actually occurs is unclear.

What is man's worth above that of programmed creation PPS? Is God so lacking in omniscience and omnipotence that He could not create real humans able to make real decision WHILST still remaining in control?

His reasoning is built upon a wrong foundation. Ergo, his reasoning is no reasoning for understanding God. PPS is hopeless.

 

[patrick jane]

His reasoning is built upon a wrong foundation. Ergo, his reasoning is no reasoning for understanding God. PPS is hopeless.

PPS is a noun that acts like a verb

 

[Cross Reference]

PPS is a noun that acts like a verb

He worships himself. The scholarly of him, errors and all, has become his religion. A seered mind he now possesses as the result.

 

[TulipBee]

PPS seems to have a lot of calvinistic flavors and it's tasty somehow

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

PPS is a noun that acts like a verb

LOL :rotfl:

 

[TulipBee]

Edit: duplicate post

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

PPS seems to have a lot of calvinistic flavors and it's tasty somehow

One man's gourmet dinner is another's poison.

 

[Cross Reference]

According to hyper calvinism, sonnet could be permitted to claim he isn't a believer. Hyper calvinism say all mankind can't believe as well as not knowing what to believe til God does something that men can't do.

But man can do it. That never changed because of his fall.

 

[TulipBee]

You seem to have forgotten what you said but a few minutes ago:



So we have (your view):
God covers everyone for everything but man cannot choose God.

And yet you still dare to assert that man frustrates it!



If he's truly unable then you won't blame him for frustrating it.

That's because cognitive "action" is the innate functionality of the noun, not a verb. The cognitive action you refer to requires repentance (metanoia, the noun). Yes, repentance is a noun, from which the action comes forth. Repentance is granted by God. Man doesn't "do" it without the noun being granted for the verb to be the action.



Strange how the apostles preached that we do those very things



I'd have to look them up. Please tell me.



That explains nothing. I'll ask again:

Why would Paul agonise over his kinsmen if he understood faith as you do?




You're just avoiding the binaries you claim are false.

If you say you're not a believer and at the same time say man can choose God then why do we taste contradition ? If you believe you're able to chose then why are you rejecting God?

 

[TulipBee]

Misrepresentation. Not appreciated.



Where have I suggested otherwise?



You claim non-alliance but it remains to be seen.



Misrepresentation. Not appreciated.

Your position, like mine, is not proven.



I do enough search as it is I'd say. One has bills to pay, of course.



Weasel: A deceitful or treacherous person.

Perhaps consider taking that back?



As far as I am concerned you teach that God did not provide for all men so I could not sit in your preaching of the Gospel.

How would you know who "all" is if you say you're not a believer. I've always been amazed how well atheists can carry conversations knowing the surface or face value of the bible. Anyone can talk about any books

 

[TulipBee]

WHo cares but the conceited.

Remember KJV is another translation and needs very, very, very, very badly retranslated. Best to start with greek and hebrew. Nouns and verbs are simple and I'm enjoying the conversations about them. What I can see is ignorance from clowns like promoting to throw away the original versions of the bible and sticking with man's versions of stupidity

 

[TulipBee]

But man can do it. That never changed because of his fall.

LOTS very wrong with arminianism - semi pelagianism and free willism. Why would I even bother with your personal opinions when its a waste of my valuable time?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Remember KJV is another translation and needs very, very, very, very badly retranslated. Best to start with greek and Hebrew. Nouns and verbs are simple and I'm enjoying the conversations about them. What I can see is ignorance from clowns like promoting to throw away the original versions of the bible and sticking with man's versions of stupidity

Can you speak and write in Greek and Hebrew? Otherwise, you're just taking the word of the English translators, correct? Therefore, how can you KNOW their translation is viable?

 

[Cross Reference]

LOTS very wrong with arminianism - semi pelagianism and free willism. Why would I even bother with your personal opinions when its a waste of my valuble time?

You will rot in your error using your valuable time.

 

[patrick jane]

LOTS very wrong with arminianism - semi pelagianism and free willism. Why would I even bother with your personal opinions when its a waste of my valuble time?

Get real, your time is not valuable, you can't even spell it.