ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

[Nang]

So far not one Calvinist has proclaimed the Gospel Paul outlines in his Corinthian letter.
Not one.

You are attempting to brow-beat the participants of this thread (and others) by demanding and dictating the exact language that you think constitutes the Gospel message.

This is error on your part, because as you have been instructed, the Gospel message permeates the entire biblical revelation. The Gospel promises appear from Genesis through Revelation.

The Gospel is not one rote sentence to be chanted repeatedly, in order to work salvation. That is mystical and superstitious thinking, and I resent your harping on it.

 

[Nang]

Ok, let's see you do so then.

See my post #433.

The purpose of this thread is to connect grace with the Truth of the Gospel message, which saves souls unconditionally, but not universally.

 

[Sonnet]

You are attempting to brow-beat the participants of this thread (and others) by demanding and dictating the exact language that you think constitutes the Gospel message.

Perhaps you are unhappy with the words Paul and the apostles preached?

This is error on your part, because as you have been instructed, the Gospel message permeates the entire biblical revelation. The Gospel promises appear from Genesis through Revelation.

The Gospel is not one rote sentence to be chanted repeatedly, in order to work salvation. That is mystical and superstitious thinking, and I resent your harping on it.

You are diverting because you cannot see any way out. Preach those words and you contradict your theology. Refuse to preach them and you fall foul of scripture.

 

[Sonnet]

See my post #433.

The purpose of this thread is to connect grace with the Truth of the Gospel message, which saves souls unconditionally, but not universally.

Okay - so what does this mean then:

Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

See my post #433.

The purpose of this thread is to connect grace with the Truth of the Gospel message, which saves souls unconditionally, but not universally.

In other words, to preach a false gospel (Calvinism) to the unsaved, correct?

 

[Nang]

Perhaps you are unhappy with the words Paul and the apostles preached?

I would not hesitate to quote Paul's words in the midst of a congregation of believers, considering the "our" to be the "us" of the body of Christ.

At other times, when my audience might be made up of obvious unbelievers, I would not use the same exact language . . because I consider it a lie to tell people God loves them, or that God loves everybody, when that message does not exist in all of Scripture.

It is a sin to give false assurance of salvation to people, which only works to delay or prevent them from coming to genuine faith in the covenant promises of God.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I wonder when a Calvinist is trying to spread their "gospel" are they upfront with the unsaved about the Elect and the non-elect?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I also wonder if "Nang" can tell the difference between an Elect person and a non-elect person?

 

[Nang]

In other words, to preach a false gospel (Calvinism) to the unsaved, correct?

It is not a false gospel to proclaim that Jesus Christ died and resurrected on the behalf of those, who will CERTAINLY be justified by faith alone. John 3:16

It would be a false gospel to proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men everywhere, if only they will choose to believe and accept the salvation He only made POSSIBLE for them.

 

[Sonnet]

I would not hesitate to quote Paul's words in the midst of a congregation of believers, considering the "our" to be the "us" of the body of Christ.

At other times, when my audience might be made up of obvious unbelievers, I would not use the same exact language . . because I consider it a lie to tell people God loves them, or that God loves everybody, when that message does not exist in all of Scripture.

It is a sin to give false assurance of salvation to people, which only works to delay or prevent them from coming to genuine faith in the covenant promises of God.

But Paul reminds them of what he preached to them upon which they 'took their stand'. He explicitly says, 'this is what we preach...'

Paul's ambition was to preach to unbelievers Romans 15:20.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Nang, you said the following: "It is a sin to give false assurance of salvation to people, which only works to delay or prevent them from coming to genuine faith in the covenant promises of God."

I would ask you then, if the "Elect" are predestined to become saved, then, what could possibly delay or prevent them?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What Nang said was inconsistent with the Calvinist belief system?

 

[Nang]

I also wonder if "Nang" can tell the difference between an Elect person and a non-elect person?

Can you?

 

[Sonnet]

It is not a false gospel to proclaim that Jesus Christ died and resurrected on the behalf of those, who will CERTAINLY be justified by faith alone. John 3:16

Paul invites the unbeliever to believe in the resurrection:

Roamns 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Your statement above implies that, as with Jesus' death, his resurrection is not be preached to unbelievers as if it necessarily applies to them.

Again, Paul proceeds otherwise.

It would be a false gospel to proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men everywhere, if only they will choose to believe and accept the salvation He only made POSSIBLE for them.

1 Timothy 2:3-6
John 3:14-16
1 Timothy 1:15
Titus 2:11
Hebrews 2:9
1 John 2:2

Not one single scripture explicitly says otherwise.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

According to Calvinism, the "Elect" were "chosen" before the foundation of the world. So, according to them, NOTHING can hinder that choice of God. Yet, Nang said that they can somehow be delayed or prevented altogether from being saved? Explain this apparent contradiction to us Nang?

 

[Sonnet]

I would not hesitate to quote Paul's words in the midst of a congregation of believers, considering the "our" to be the "us" of the body of Christ.

At other times, when my audience might be made up of obvious unbelievers, I would not use the same exact language . . because I consider it a lie to tell people God loves them, or that God loves everybody, when that message does not exist in all of Scripture.

It is a sin to give false assurance of salvation to people, which only works to delay or prevent them from coming to genuine faith in the covenant promises of God.

Two Gospel Calvinism - one to believers which is different to the one for unbelievers.
Galatians 1:8-9.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Can you?

Well, I don't believe in an "Elect system." I go by what someone says they believe. If they have the correct Biblical articulation of one who has trusted totally in Christ, then, I would be fairly certain they are in the Body of Christ.

 

[john w]

I am Reformed and I have testified in this thread, that I proclaim the Gospel indiscriminately to all, and then leave it up to God as to who He might bestow His saving grace . . for I have no idea who is elect or not, or who is non-elect today, but might be regenerate to new spiritual life tomorrow.

Did you read the above testimony of Zanchius, who reminds us that Jesus Christ preached Truth to all within hearing, and He DID know who would believe or not.

The Gospel is a two-edged sword; it either blesses with salvation, or it condemns unbelief. It either saves the soul or judges the soul.

Here is Debbie Downer Nag's "The Gospel," ....

"Any person who lives his life wrongly and does not repent of his sins, will be held responsible and judged for breaking God's laws and are justly consigned to death and hell. Sinners only receive what they have earned. Men reap what they sow."-evil "woman" Nag


....which is not "good news," but bad news, condemning each, and everyone of us, with this subjective " lives his life wrongly," and quite inadequate, as no one, has repented of all their sins, even if this were the "good news." It is not. The reason the Lord Jesus Christ died for my/our sins????????????


-Because each and every one of us, does "live his/her life wrongly," in what we do, and do not do, in how we think, and in how we do not think, because we "come short" in meeting the bar demanded by a holy LORD God-"100% compliance," and "the righteousness of God."

-"repenting of our sins," as in "stop sinning," is impossible, as we commit sins, that we do not even know we commit. Regardless, the statement denies that the Lord Jesus Christ died for them. The entire reason that He did die for every last one of them? Because we cannot/do not repent of them!

A 7 year old "gets" this; most alleged "Christians" do not.

 

[john w]

delete-dup

 

[Nang]

But Paul reminds them of what he preached to them upon which they 'took their stand'. He explicitly says, 'this is what we preach...'

Paul's ambition was to preach to unbelievers Romans 15:20.

So?

Paul was preaching to brethren in the church at Corinth in I Cor. 15:1-8.

So?

Paul did a lot of teaching and had many things to say to all kinds of unbelievers, and was never limited to only repeating the message he gave to the Corinthians.