Good Friday?

[jamie]

Did the Lord Jesus' disciples prepare the passover on the 14th so that they could eat it with Him that evening or not.....according to the text?

Yes, the NT Passover was prepared in an upper room on the evening that began the 14th and was observed after supper.

We don't know what they ate for supper but after supper Jesus observed God's NT Passover, which to this day is observed by many of us since he said do this in remembrance of me. Many of us do.

And it only takes a short while to prepare unleavened bread and wine to be taken after supper. In fact, I buy unleavened bread and wine ahead of time so that after dark on the evening that begins Nisan 14 all I have to do is break the bread, give thanks, pour a little wine, give thanks and I have renewed my contract with God for another year.

 

[jamie]

Was the Lord Jesus killed in the temple?

No, he was crucified on the Mount of Olives across from the Temple.

 

[jamie]

Was His flesh literally eaten through the night of the 15th and nothing left by morning?

No, his body was symbolized by the broken unleavened bread he served to his disciples in an upper room.

 

[steko]

No, he was crucified on the Mount of Olives across from the Temple.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[steko]

Yes, the NT Passover was prepared in an upper room on the evening that began the 14th and was observed after supper.

We don't know what they ate for supper but after supper Jesus observed God's NT Passover, which to this day is observed by many of us since he said do this in remembrance of me. Many of us do.

And it only takes a short while to prepare unleavened bread and wine to be taken after supper. In fact, I buy unleavened bread and wine ahead of time so that after dark on the evening that begins Nisan 14 all I have to do is break the bread, give thanks, pour a little wine, give thanks and I have renewed by contract with God for another year.

So.....you prepare on the 13th. Is that the day that the Lord instructed His disciples to prepare, according to the text?

 

[steko]

No, his body was symbolized by the broken unleavened bread he served to his disciples in an upper room.

So.....the type and the antitype are not one for one identical.
Is that right?

 

[jamie]

Are you being sarcastic?

Nope.

 

[achduke]

By this statement, are you saying that Jesus told His disciples to go into the city and prepare the passover at the beginning night/dark period of the 14th?

It seems clear to me from the text that they went into the city during the daylight hours of the 14th to do all that was necessary to prepare to eat the passover meal, which would occur after sunset which is the beginning of the 15th. This is the only possible chronology that I can derive from the plain meaning of the text.

Yes. I think they prepared and ate the last supper on the 13/14th time frame, and he was killed at the end of the day on the 14th.

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

I have not specifically seen any verse why they could not have eaten on the night of the 14th before afternoon of the 14th when he was crucified as the passover lamb.

 

[jamie]

So.....you prepare on the 13th. Is that the day that the Lord instructed His disciples to prepare, according to the text?

I prepare ahead of time, usually several days ahead of time. Jesus didn't say to not do so. Also he observed his Passover in an upper room but I don't have an upper room. We do what we can.

Also I don't wait until Nisan 14 to remove leavening in preparation for Passover observance. How about you?

 

[jamie]

So.....the type and the antitype are not one for one identical.
Is that right?

Right, the type was animal blood which did not truly remove human sin. The antitype was Jesus' blood shed once for everyone for all time.

Each year we commemorate his broken body and shed blood as he asked us to do.

 

[steko]

I prepare ahead of time, usually several days ahead of time. Jesus didn't say to not do so. Also he observed his Passover in an upper room but I don't have an upper room. We do what we can.

I believe the Lord Jesus obeyed the law and kept the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel.

Also I don't wait until Nisan 14 to remove leavening in preparation for Passover observance. How about you?

I don't strictly adhere to Mosaic law, though I have associated with Messianic Jews from USA and Israel for decades. The Seders which I have participated in recognize a 14th day time preparation for the passover seder and an after sundown beginninig of the 15th eating of the Seder. According to what I see in the text, this is what the Lord and His disciples did.
To say that the Lord's disciples asked Him where should they prepare the Passover meal for Him after sundown of the 13th is a forced/strained interpretation of the very plain text.
It would require the disciples to have prior knowledge that this was not going to be a normal Passover meal according to the law, yet, nowhere does one find them questioning this.
I derive from the text that His disciples asked Him during the daylight hours of the 14th, where they should make ready the commanded Passover meal.

Please tell me how the disciples knew that they were not to prepare the lamb or buy an already prepared lamb. At this point, as mentioned many times in the text, they didn't even understand the Messiah had to die. Peter even opposed the idea when the Lord told them.

 

[steko]

Right, the type was animal blood which did not truly remove human sin. The antitype was Jesus' blood shed once for everyone for all time.

Each year we commemorate his broken body and shed blood as he asked us to do.

So.....if the type and antitype are not one for one identical on every point, then why is it necessary that Christ die at exactly the same time as the Passover lambs?

 

[achduke]

I believe the Lord Jesus obeyed the law and kept the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel.



I don't strictly adhere to Mosaic law, though I have associated with Messianic Jews from USA and Israel for decades. The Seders which I have participated in recognize a 14th day time preparation for the passover seder and an after sundown beginninig of the 15th eating of the Seder. According to what I see in the text, this is what the Lord and His disciples did.
To say that the Lord's disciples asked Him where should they prepare the Passover meal for Him after sundown of the 13th is a forced/strained interpretation of the very plain text.
It would require the disciples to have prior knowledge that this was not going to be a normal Passover meal according to the law, yet, nowhere does one find them questioning this.
I derive from the text that His disciples asked Him during the daylight hours of the 14th, where they should make ready the commanded Passover meal.

Please tell me how the disciples knew that they were not to prepare the lamb or buy an already prepared lamb. At this point, as mentioned many times in the text, they didn't even understand the Messiah had to die. Peter even opposed the idea when the Lord told them.

I do not believe the last supper was a passover meal at the appointed time.

In John 18:28 The Jews had not even eaten the passover but the last supper was done and over with.

John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

 

[jamie]

So.....if the type and antitype are not one for one identical on every point, then why is it necessary that Christ die at exactly the same time as the Passover lambs?

As John said Jesus was God's Lamb who was God's Passover whose shed blood covered sins for all time.

 

[jamie]

I believe the Lord Jesus obeyed the law and kept the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel.

The Passover was a lamb or goat whose shed blood protected the firstborn from death.

The Passover was eaten that night to commemorate the exodus from Egypt.

It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt, this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. (Exodus 12:42 NKJV)​

The Passover blood was for the firstborn and the meal was for all Israel and required males to be circumcised. We don't observe that type of Passover. The bread and wine was for everyone, not just Israel.

 

[WeberHome]

-
Q: Why is it that modern Judaism doesn't dine upon lamb Passover night?

A: According to the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God, the
Passover has to be observed "according to all its statutes and according to
all its ordinances." (Num 9:3)

So then, not only is the timing of Passover important, but also its procedure.

Well; according to Deut 16:2, Deut 16:5-6, and Num 9:13, paschal lambs
are offerings, and as such are to be "brought". In other words: sans a
Temple, and a fully functioning priesthood on duty in Jerusalem, it is
impossible to bring one's offering to the Lord; so modern Judaism makes do
with a modified version.

Q: It's permissible to modify Passover?

A: No it is not permissible. In point of fact, modifying any part of the
covenant is quite curse-worthy.

†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take
anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God
that I enjoin upon you.

†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has
commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the
path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you

†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this
law by carrying them out.

FYI: Non Jews (a.k.a. Gentiles) think its okay to join their Jewish friends for
dinner on Passover night. But whoa! Not so! Not only do they violate the
covenant by an illegal Passover dinner, but they also dishonor it's religious
significance too. (Ex 12:43, Ex 12:48)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[jamie]

So then, not only is the timing of Passover important, but also its procedure.

Also Moses said, "In one house it shall be eaten, you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones." (Exodus 12:46 NKJV)

I understand that today Jews use a shank bone or a chicken wing, both of which are broken from the host. However, this is just what I have read, I have never seen a Seder observance. I observe the NT instead.

 

[daqq]

-

When Christ was here, the daytime hours of a calendar day consisted of no
more than twelve.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A
man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

I assumed that since I mentioned 18 and 24 together you would understand.
Silly me . . .

 

[steko]

I do not believe the last supper was a passover meal at the appointed time.

I do. The Lord said, "I will keep[poieo] the Passover."


Mat 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep[poieo] the passover at thy house with my disciples.

Num 9:2 Speak, and let the children of Israel keep[poieo] the passover in its season.-LXX

2Ch 35:17 And the children of Israel that were present kept[poieo] the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days.
2Ch 35:18 And there was no passover like it in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet, or any king of Israel: they kept[poieo] not such a passover as Josias, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Juda and Israel that were present, and the dwellers in Jerusalem, kept[poieo] to the Lord.
2Ch 35:19 In the eighteenth year of the reign of Josias this passover was kept[poieo]- LXX

In John 18:28 The Jews had not even eaten the passover but the last supper was done and over with.

Most folks don't understand John's use of language in his chronology.

There are eight other examples of pascha in John’s Gospel and in all of them the week long feast is meant, not the seder.
The Lord had already eaten the Passover meal earlier on that same night at GOD's appointed time for all Israel.
In Jn 18:28, he is referring to the Chagigah festive offering which takes place during the day of the 15th during 'Passover' week for which the Jews must be undefiled. The 15th is the day after the Passover lamb was sacrificed.

 

[steko]

No, he was crucified on the Mount of Olives across from the Temple.

Are you being sarcastic?

Nope.

In all my years I've never heard the opinion that Christ was crucified on the Mount of Olives.

The Scripture says, Golgatha, which is near Jersualem and 'outside the camp', but the Mt of Olives is around 3000 feet away and across the Kidron valley, which is quite a distance to carry the cross, by anyone.

The Scripture says that He ascended from the Mt of Olives, for sure.

Wow! I've just never heard that!