Arthur Brain
Well-known member
How can something be reconciled if still split asunder effectively?
That's kinda like a married couple saying they're all good while working out divorce details...
Reconcile isn't just some throwaway word.
"[God] will have all men to be saved..."
- Thread starter musterion
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How can something be reconciled if still split asunder effectively?
That's kinda like a married couple saying they're all good while working out divorce details...
Reconcile isn't just some throwaway word.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
So, essentially everything but unbelief was accounted for then?
When did God ever desire anyone to be lost?
musterion
Well-known member
When He reprobated the reprobates.
If my child was raped and murdered I might look to God for justice.
The Russian peasants who were slaughtered in their MILLIONS to make way for the communist revolution might look to God for justice.
But Russian peasants, Jews, children etc belong to God, they are His property, He created them.
If parents want justice, the Father in heaven requires justice also.
KingdomRose
New member
The quote in mind is: "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior [the Father; see John 17:3], who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (NASB).
It doesn't say that God will save all men. It says that He desires all men to be saved. That's why He sent Jesus down here. But He doesn't force anyone to accept the plan of salvation. Each of us must decide for ourselves if we want to accept it. Then we must act in accordance with our acceptance.
James said: "I will show you my faith by my works....Faith without works is dead." (James 2:18b & 26b) So it takes more than believing. The demons believe, and where does that get them?
Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do what I say." (John 15:14, NASB)
It is important what each of us, individually, chooses to do.
KingdomRose
New member
No, it doesn't say that God WILL have all men saved. It is His will that all men would be saved.....that they would choose to be saved by Him.
lain:
nope. It says God will, not wills, so pipe down until you can read
1 Timothy 2:4 KJV -
What work have you done good enough to earn you salvation? if you are not yet saved what will change before you lay adying?
We have shown over and again that people who claim to obey Christ do not...it is something they say others must do but they themselves do not do.
They are the same ones who will say "Lord did we not do this and did we not do that....."
beloved57
Well-known member
That what God desires He does it, the True God that is Job 23:13!
glorydaz
Well-known member
Reconciliation is a two way street. The enmity on God's side was taken care of by our Lord's death on the cross....He paid the price for mankind's sin. Now, each man, must "be reconciled" to God. God has "offered His hand" (as it were). The question is, who will accept the peace that He is offering.
In the example you offer, it would be that one party agrees to stay married, but the other refuses. There is no peace unless both sides agree.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well that's the point. There's no reconciliation if there's still division. If God reconciles everything then the division is gone isn't it? I mean, doesn't everyone bow their knee and give praise according to the bible? Is that forced, hyperbole or allegory or something?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
You seem to equate a lack of eternal hell with a lack of 'justice'. That's your prerogative I guess but considering many of the victims of atrocities would end up in 'hell' in "orthodox" Christianity I'm not sure why you use such examples...
glorydaz
Well-known member
There is reconciliation on God's side (He is willing), and my side because I have believed, but there is still division on the side of many who have not yet made their own peace with God. Now we are preaching the Gospel (in Christ's stead)....as though God was beseeching all unbelievers to be reconciled to HIM.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Well, I don't know about the praise part, but they will certainly stand before the Judgment Seat and give an accounting of themselves to God.
Romans 14:10-12
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well on this plane full reconciliation would be impossible if it's incumbent on man. Doesn't mean God can't reconcile everything ultimately though.
Seems as though some translations have praise as part and others don't:
http://biblehub.com/romans/14-11.htm
For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"
Could any of that be forced?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Those translations that use "praise" or "give thanks" are adopting the LXX usage.
The key is the emphatic summary of that which came previously in the very next verse: "So then each of us shall give account of himself to God." The "us" therein are the believers. (Romans 14:12)
The preceding verse, Romans 14:10, states without equivocation that all believers will be judged according to their walk of faith. The judgment will not entail a decision regarding one’s salvation since according to John 5:24 the believer has already crossed over from death to life. Eternal life is a present possession (1 Cor 3:10–15) of the believer. There will, however, be for every believer a judgment of the quality of his or her life.
In 2 Cor 5:10 Paul said, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
The passage and what precedes it is about the building up of the brethren not the tearing them down that has been going on, for those that have been behaving badly, "fruit inspectors," are going to be called into account for their own actions, as are all believers. It would be straining the meaning of Romans 14 to force the teachings therein as advocating universalism.
AMR