God Owes Us Big Time

[allsmiles]

I believe that if Jesus died on the cross, and even if he didn't, even if the story is a metaphor, it is a representation of god reconciling himself to us. I believe god feels badly for the earthly, physical situation we're in, I think he created us not knowing the consequences of his actions, and because he is good, cannot destroy us. I believe that the death of jesus was an act to help him better understand our pain, not to save us, but so that he could experience what we do, so he could be side by side with us and relate and let us know he is sorry for what he did.

I think god owes us big time.

Discuss.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

I believe that if Jesus died on the cross, and even if he didn't, even if the story is a metaphor, it is a representation of god reconciling himself to us. I believe god feels badly for the earthly, physical situation we're in, I think he created us not knowing the consequences of his actions, and because he is good, cannot destroy us. I believe that the death of jesus was an act to help him better understand our pain, not to save us, but so that he could experience what we do, so he could be side by side with us and relate and let us know he is sorry for what he did.

I think god owes us big time.

Discuss.

OK. You're a wingnut.

:chuckle:

Seriously, there is no way to come to such a conclusion from anything remotely approaching an accurate reading of the Christian scriptures, therefore I assume you're also drawing on other sources of information. Would you care to discuss those other sources?

Justin

 

[PureX]

It has a kind of twisted logic, but is far too anthropomorphic for me. Whatever "God" is, I doubt that God is even remotely this similar to us in thought or action.

 

[Granite]

Yeah. I see what smiles is saying but I think whatever deity or ethereal "force" there may be, it's unlikely to be able to relate directly to humanity.

 

[Poly]

I think he created us not knowing the consequences of his actions, and because he is good, cannot destroy us.
I think god owes us big time.

Discuss.

God did destroyed the whole Earth during Noah's day because He is good. He could have let the world go on forever in the pure evil state it was in, with nobody ever being able to experience Him because of their great wickedness or He could be merciful and wipe those out at the time, starting again with another generation.

I believe that the death of jesus was an act to help him better understand our pain, not to save us, but so that he could experience what we do, so he could be side by side with us and relate and let us know he is sorry for what he did.

I think god owes us bigtime.

What does He have to be sorry for? For allowing man to be born having the opportunity to experience Him? Man is the one who decides to reject Him. I'm sure He is sorry about that but not because He had anything to do with it. God doesn't owe man anything. Man makes His own choice. God allows man to deal with the consequences of those choices.

 

[allsmiles]

Just a theory, just throwing rocks at the beehive as I heard one person call it.

But think about it, we're in an existence that many people, including someone as happy and delightful as myself, could describe as mediocre at best. Is there anything (and leave the bible out of this for a moment) about reality that would lead anyone to believe that we owe god anything? Really, at any moment you could die, heart attack, car accident, disease, gun shot, natural gas leak, fires, natural disasters, etc.

Plus, life is painful. Now, what do we have that we should really have to praise god for? Why do we have to live this painful life, and give him thanks for it, because if we don't we'll go to hell? And if the christian god was so regretful of creating us so, but couldn't destroy us, than maybe, just maybe, if we're his image, and he conversely is our image, than just maybe he feels guilty too. He can feel wrath, love, jealousy, regret, can't he feel guilt? Can't he feel sorry for us? Why is it so out of the realm of possibility? What if he feels guilty about creating us in this sorry state?

I'm just asking for people to think outside of the box/book, to explore possibilities.

 

[beanieboy]

There was a camp a friend worked at.
It was to teach leadership.

One of the challenges was to get 20 people on a cement block that is only 2 ft wide.

People come up with ideas, they don't work, they start yelling at each other. They say, "This is impossible. Tell us what to do." The instructor simply restates what the objective is.

Finally, after they realize that fighting gets them nowhere, and that listening to everyone is beneficial, because they might have the answer, they came up with a very difficult solution.

Everyone feels a sense of accomplishment, but they walk away, realizing that these things are possible if they work together.

That's how I see the Earth. Like a big challenge, and we have to figure out how to make it work.

 

[Caledvwlch]

Just a theory, just throwing rocks at the beehive as I heard one person call it.

But think about it, we're in an existence that many people, including someone as happy and delightful as myself, could describe as mediocre at best. Is there anything (and leave the bible out of this for a moment) about reality that would lead anyone to believe that we owe god anything? Really, at any moment you could die, heart attack, car accident, disease, gun shot, natural gas leak, fires, natural disasters, etc.

Plus, life is painful. Now, what do we have that we should really have to praise god for? Why do we have to live this painful life, and give him thanks for it, because if we don't we'll go to hell? And if the christian god was so regretful of creating us so, but couldn't destroy us, than maybe, just maybe, if we're his image, and he conversely is our image, than just maybe he feels guilty too. He can feel wrath, love, jealousy, regret, can't he feel guilt? Can't he feel sorry for us? Why is it so out of the realm of possibility? What if he feels guilty about creating us in this sorry state?

I'm just asking for people to think outside of the box/book, to explore possibilities.

I'm smelling what you're steppin' in, smiles. As far as speculation goes, it's a pretty cool idea. And I do love to speculate...

 

[beanieboy]

Just a theory, just throwing rocks at the beehive as I heard one person call it.

But think about it, we're in an existence that many people, including someone as happy and delightful as myself, could describe as mediocre at best. Is there anything (and leave the bible out of this for a moment) about reality that would lead anyone to believe that we owe god anything? Really, at any moment you could die, heart attack, car accident, disease, gun shot, natural gas leak, fires, natural disasters, etc.

Plus, life is painful. Now, what do we have that we should really have to praise god for? Why do we have to live this painful life, and give him thanks for it, because if we don't we'll go to hell? And if the christian god was so regretful of creating us so, but couldn't destroy us, than maybe, just maybe, if we're his image, and he conversely is our image, than just maybe he feels guilty too. He can feel wrath, love, jealousy, regret, can't he feel guilt? Can't he feel sorry for us? Why is it so out of the realm of possibility? What if he feels guilty about creating us in this sorry state?

I'm just asking for people to think outside of the box/book, to explore possibilities.

Hm.

Technically, children owe their parents nothing. They didn't ask to be born. It was a decision of the parents. But disrespectful children, children who live from a 'You owe me big time' attitude, are never really happy. When they realize that giving is even more joyful than receiving, they start to be prepared to have their own children.

 

[Justin (Wiccan)]

Just a theory, just throwing rocks at the beehive as I heard one person call it.

So in other words, it's not "I believe" so much as "Here's an idea ... let's play with it for a while?" Then why didn't you say that, you loon?

But think about it, we're in an existence that many people, including someone as happy and delightful as myself, could describe as mediocre at best. Is there anything (and leave the bible out of this for a moment) about reality that would lead anyone to believe that we owe god anything? Really, at any moment you could die, heart attack, car accident, disease, gun shot, natural gas leak, fires, natural disasters, etc.

"Mediocre at best?" Come on, allsmiles ... that's too pesimistic for me.

Plus, life is painful. Now, what do we have that we should really have to praise god for? Why do we have to live this painful life, and give him thanks for it, because if we don't we'll go to hell?

:shrug: Life is painful. It's also pleasant. Life is a mixture of good and bad, because unalloyed pleasure is dissatisfying.

Justin

 

[allsmiles]

God did destroyed the whole Earth during Noah's day because He is good. He could have let the world go on forever in the pure evil state it was in, with nobody ever being able to experience Him because of their great wickedness or He could be merciful and wipe those out at the time, starting again with another generation.

God is so compassionate that he killed everyone.

Sorry, you're completely detached from reality. Tough love like this doesn't fly in the "real" world honey. Swing and miss, try again.

What does He have to be sorry for?

Uh, because life can suck really badly for a lot people. Because life is pain and if anyone tells you otherwise they're selling something. Because if he were so powerful than he would have done a better job of creating us, but he didn't, he did a mediocre job at best and we're stuck with the mediocre consequences of his creativity. We have to live with it, he doesn't. We have to live and die, he doesn't.

For allowing man to be born having the opportunity to experience Him?

No, he did give us the capacity to search our souls and discover him, that is nice, and that's how I came across this theory.

Man is the one who decides to reject Him. I'm sure He is sorry about that but not because He had anything to do with it.

This conclusion only works if one presupposes the premise is true. It's entirely subjective and only works if you believe it.

God doesn't owe man anything. Man makes His own choice. God allows man to deal with the consequences of those choices.

I agree with the second half, that man has to deal with the consequences of his actions, but as for god not owing us, I disagree. I don't think there's anything in reality that points to us owing god. Like I said, leave the bible out of this, if you're right than you don't even need the bible.

 

[Poly]

God is so compassionate that he killed everyone.

Sorry, you're completely detached from reality. Tough love like this doesn't fly in the "real" world honey. Swing and miss, try again.

So you think He should have just let man go forever in his wickedness. Real nice attitude you have there.

Uh, because life can suck really badly for a lot people. Because life is pain and if anyone tells you otherwise they're selling something.
Because if he were so powerful than he would have done a better job of creating us, but he didn't, he did a mediocre job at best and we're stuck with the mediocre consequences of his creativity. We have to live with it, he doesn't. We have to live and die, he doesn't.

If life is so bad it's because man chose for it to be this way.

Why don't you try getting over being so mad at God because He didn't preprogram everybody to be nice. If He did, and everybody loved him because He made them to do so, is that really love? It isn't really love unless you have the choice not to. If parents had the option to pre-program their children into loving them, would that be a healthy thing to do? What parent would want the love of their kid because they were programmed to do so? I want to be a good parent to my kids, teaching them what's right so that they make right choices on their own and love me because they want to and because they choose to.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think god owes us big time.

And just what does He owe us?

 

[beanieboy]

So you think He should have just let man go forever in his wickedness. Real nice attitude you have there.

How could all of civilization be pure evil?
New York City has a lot of crime.
Does that mean that everyone who lives there is pure evil, and we should kill them all?

That's never made sense to me.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

How could all of civilization be pure evil?
New York City has a lot of crime.
Does that mean that everyone who lives there is pure evil, and we should kill them all?

That's never made sense to me.

Maybe because your comparison is flawed? Apparently prior to the flood the entire earth had become wicked (minus a select few).

 

[beanieboy]

A baby was evil?

Come on...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

A baby was evil?

Come on...

Apparently the entire bloodline was endanger of becoming corrupt....

Genesis 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.3 And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

So then God thwarted the plans of evil by saving the bloodline through Noah.

 

[beanieboy]

[/b]6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
.

Like this:
God regretting for making man?
The all knowing, all seeing God, didn't know it would turn out like this?

Doesn't that make you question?

And how can an entire blood line, not that far away from A&E, be all evil?
How were they to determine right and wrong if they didn't have a bible, or even the 10 Commandments?

Hasn't any of this ever crossed your mind?

 

[Emo]

I think god owes us big time.

This may be the most ridiculous, blasphemous statement that I have ever heard.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Like this:
God regretting for making man?
The all knowing, all seeing God, didn't know it would turn out like this?

God knows everything KNOWABLE. He chooses NOT to know the future actions of His creation because He wanted to create us in a way that we had our own freewill. He wanted to create us in a way so not to coerce our love for Him.

Doesn't that make you question?

It would make me SERIOUSLY question a person who promoted calvinistic theology. I do not.

And how can an entire blood line, not that far away from A&E, be all evil?
How were they to determine right and wrong if they didn't have a bible, or even the 10 Commandments?

Apparently it was more complicated than that. It appears that the devil and his cohorts were making a serious push to thwart God's plan of eventually redeeming mankind. God won.

The spiritually battle is deeper than we know on the surface.

Hasn't any of this ever crossed your mind?

Yes.