Gnosticism:

[Letsargue]

With adequate research, you'll find that a good share of the early christians were 'gnostics' - even Clement of Alexandria calls those who have true knowledge of the Lord's teaching by such name, although his reference was not to groups considered 'heretical' under such name. A true christian is one who follows Jesus and his teachings (both esoteric and exoteric) for he took his closest disciples asides in private and taught them the 'mysteries of the kingdom'. One can study or play with the various gnostic mythologies and interesting heirarchies of eons, powers and luminaries that fill the pleroma, yet still...the essential principles of one recognizing his divine inheritance and the 'battle' of duality between 'flesh' and 'spirit' play out...as even Paul speaks much about, whose teaching of the mysteries some of the gnostics adopted, revering him as a great teacher of gnosis. (Valentinus is purported to have learned from Theudas, a disciple of Paul).

I find it peculiar that so called orthodox christians maintain their attitudes against gnosticism, but this goes back in the 'historic mind' and its 'mechanics', which in order to maintain the historical so called 'physical' resurrection of Jesus fought hard against Docetism, and the liberal spirituality and authority of the gnostics who would not necessarily yield themselves to the growing power of a church-state (i.e. Romish churchianity). - granted, there are gnostic churches who do have an apostolic succession, priesthood, sacraments, essential tenets/principles, creeds, etc. yet they have intellectual freedom and liberties in their religious vocation, for it is that 'living knowledge' of the divine that is ultimately the final authority.



pj

The early Christians you're talking about were the early Catholics calling themselves Christians, who were not, and still not Christians; just Catholics; of the body of the Catholic / Catholic church / body, not the Body of Christ / Church.

Paul 010711

 

[freelight]

back to basics..............

back to basics..............

The early Christians you're talking about were the early Catholics calling themselves Christians, who were not, and still not Christians; just Catholics; of the body of the Catholic / Catholic church / body, not the Body of Christ / Church.

Paul 010711

Ah,....all a matter of perspective eh, ...however....consider the historical facts of the times, and that Jesus earliest and closest disciples stayed true to Judaism and were led by James the Just, Jesus brother in the Jerusalem community....decades after Jesus left the scene. Jesus neither commanded or instructed any deviation or exodus from the Jewish tradition, albiet teaching new insight and revelation upon that which was already given, imparting new revelation in private to his disciples.

The RCC developed its own 'brand' of 'Christianity' as a doctrinal evolution morphing into the monolith it is today, with its protestant innovations. Still, if the Holy Spirit is continuing to teach, lead and guide...that same Spirit continues to 'enlighten' those receptive to its teaching. The Spirit gives light (gnosis, revelation, realization). A 'gnostic' (generically termed) is one who recognized and values this 'knowledge'.


pj

 

[Letsargue]

Ah,....all a matter of perspective eh, ...however....consider the historical facts of the times, and that Jesus earliest and closest disciples stayed true to Judaism and were led by James the Just, Jesus brother in the Jerusalem community....decades after Jesus left the scene. Jesus neither commanded or instructed any deviation or exodus from the Jewish tradition, albiet teaching new insight and revelation upon that which was already given, imparting new revelation in private to his disciples.

The RCC developed its own 'brand' of 'Christianity' as a doctrinal evolution morphing into the monolith it is today, with its protestant innovations. Still, if the Holy Spirit is continuing to teach, lead and guide...that same Spirit continues to 'enlighten' those receptive to its teaching. The Spirit gives light (gnosis, revelation, realization). A 'gnostic' (generically termed) is one who recognized and values this 'knowledge'.


pj

Freelight, - I have to hand it to you, - at least you don’t hide with your head in the dirt as do some of your brothers-in-the-mess.

Free! – It doesn’t matter what anyone does or doesn’t do. - It doesn’t matter what anyone says or doesn’t say, it only matters what is written that Christ has said; not even what he didn’t say. SO! -- What is written and what did Jesus / God say about anything? --- Matthew 4:4 KJV – “It is written”. -----

Paul – 010810

 

[freelight]

universal principles

universal principles

Freelight, - I have to hand it to you, - at least you don’t hide with your head in the dirt as do some of your brothers-in-the-mess.

Free! – It doesn’t matter what anyone does or doesn’t do. - It doesn’t matter what anyone says or doesn’t say, it only matters what is written that Christ has said; not even what he didn’t say. SO! -- What is written and what did Jesus / God say about anything? --- Matthew 4:4 KJV – “It is written”. -----

Paul – 010810

As far as what Jesus said,..we only have second hand reports, hashed over by so many copiers, etc. Outside the synoptic gospels, we have many non-canonical, apocryphal, gnostic and modern day channeled messages, purported to be from Jesus or a collective Christ-consciousness. One can research and study all available teachings and discern what is true for themselves as such resonates with universal truths and principles.

Gnostic Cosmology

The secret teaching of Jesus over the merging of the masculine and feminine principles and their ultimate transcendence in the One Spirit - Here.


pj

 

[Letsargue]

As far as what Jesus said,..we only have second hand reports, hashed over by so many copiers, etc. Outside the synoptic gospels, we have many non-canonical, apocryphal, gnostic and modern day channeled messages, purported to be from Jesus or a collective Christ-consciousness. One can research and study all available teachings and discern what is true for themselves as such resonates with universal truths and principles.

Gnostic Cosmology

The secret teaching of Jesus over the merging of the masculine and feminine principles and their ultimate transcendence in the One Spirit - Here.


pj

Second hand report only IF JESUS doesn't have a hand in getting the Truth to the world. - I have faith that he does, don't you?

Paul -- 011010

 

[freelight]

Second hand report only IF JESUS doesn't have a hand in getting the Truth to the world. - I have faith that he does, don't you?

Paul -- 011010

Well, the Spirit certainly inspires and enables men to keep sacred writings from antiquity, even though some things may be distorted or lost in translation. The Spirit of God still illumines, leads and guides those receptive to it. Yes, Jesus still speaks,...but he's not limited to a few gospel accounts chosen as 'canonical' by a certain 'church' or 'community'. Truth is available to all who have an open heart and soul to hear, see and know it....at it is and continues to unfold itself.


pj

 

[Letsargue]

Well, the Spirit certainly inspires and enables men to keep sacred writings from antiquity, even though some things may be distorted or lost in translation. The Spirit of God still illumines, leads and guides those receptive to it. Yes, Jesus still speaks,...but he's not limited to a few gospel accounts chosen as 'canonical' by a certain 'church' or 'community'. Truth is available to all who have an open heart and soul to hear, see and know it....at it is and continues to unfold itself.


pj

The difference between you and me is that I take the Scriptures only as the Word of God and no other than the Holy Bible as it's called.

You however are likely to take things that were never intended to be a part of the Word of God. - That's a danger that cannot be taken. - The words that I use cannot be in error if I stick to the Bible. -- I receive more than they all, even though AMR has his head in the dirt on my account, and still calls me a fool.

Paul -- 011611

 

[horiturk]

Yet there is still nothing in the Scriptures or the Creation, confused. All is systematic by exact design. There cannot be a philosophy of nonconfusion and design. Philosophy only confises the design. The reading of Truth is the Truth.
Is that philosophy, or is it TRUTH?

Paul -- 100310

if you think there is nothing contradictory in the bible then you must be reading a different one than i've studied.

 

[Letsargue]

if you think there is nothing contradictory in the bible then you must be reading a different one than i've studied.

That only proves that either God or you are a liar.

Paul -- 011611

 

[freelight]

One Infinity.......

One Infinity.......

The difference between you and me is that I take the Scriptures only as the Word of God and no other than the Holy Bible as it's called.

Observingly, you do not accept other inspired writings outside what a certain group of people or culture have 'compiled' as their 'scriptures', - however to limit the inspiration (Spirit) of 'God' to only one culture or race of man is short-sighted and unfounded IMO, when the 'Light' of 'God' is available to all, and dispensed in various degrees thru-out.

You however are likely to take things that were never intended to be a part of the Word of God.

Inspired sayings are not limited to what you consider and 'restrict' to a collection of books you assign as the 'word of god'. God's Word is recorded and evident in the Book of Nature, the cosmos and the very soul of man himself. We are the expressions of 'God'. (All is the expression of Spirit).

- That's a danger that cannot be taken. - The words that I use cannot be in error if I stick to the Bible.

Besides the fact that the Bible is not the only inspired collection of books, there is also the various interpretations of such and their 'translation'

Truth is One, yet the sages call it by many names.
There is One Light, many rays.....One Ocean, many rivers.

-- I receive more than they all, even though AMR has his head in the dirt on my account, and still calls me a fool.

All open to light receive such. Light is inherent knowledge of the nature of reality and its impressions.


pj

 

[horiturk]

That only proves that either God or you are a liar.

Paul -- 011611

hopefully God wouldn't lie,but the men who wrote the bible most certainly embellished a bit....well,a lot actually

 

[freelight]

matchless beauty.......

matchless beauty.......

hopefully God wouldn't lie,but the men who wrote the bible most certainly embellished a bit....well,a lot actually

And its not necessarily about 'God' or 'man' being a liar,...but that the divine reality remains essentially the same in substance, although articulated and 'vested' in different terms, metaphors and pictures. When you open your 'scope' to the universality of truth your comprehension becomes more versatile and inclusive,...because 'God' is One....and All.

There is nothing that exists that is not of 'God', either revealed or obscured.


pj

 

[Letsargue]

And its not necessarily about 'God' or 'man' being a liar,...but that the divine reality remains essentially the same in substance, although articulated and 'vested' in different terms, metaphors and pictures. When you open your 'scope' to the universality of truth your comprehension becomes more versatile and inclusive,...because 'God' is One....and All.

There is nothing that exists that is not of 'God', either revealed or obscured.


pj

All Truth / the Word of God is the Light of God, and the stuff you just wrote there has nothing to do with God and his Truth, therefore, your asumption is in error, as are all asumptions of darkness.

Paul -- 042011

 

[freelight]

All Truth / the Word of God is the Light of God, and the stuff you just wrote there has nothing to do with God and his Truth, therefore, your asumption is in error, as are all asumptions of darkness.

Paul -- 042011

Indeed, 'God' is Light,..and the only eternal reality that is 'Being'. This truth of original existence, is intact within the "I" that I Am. And it could not be otherwise, since 'God' is all that is real. "I" am not seperate from 'God', for God is One, here, Now, in totality.


Om!


pj

 

[Letsargue]

Indeed, 'God' is Light,..and the only eternal reality that is 'Being'. This truth of original existence, is intact within the "I" that I Am. And it could not be otherwise, since 'God' is all that is real. "I" am not seperate from 'God', for God is One, here, Now, in totality.


Om!


pj

TOTAL? ---- There is a darkness and in God there is no darkness at all. --- You may say that darkness is not an existence, however, darkness is the ABSENCE of God, so there is an absence of God, even though God is in that darkness. – Therefore, God is not his own absence which is the darkness which makes up the other half of all existence. --- God is not philosophical, and cannot be understood by reasoning. – If darkness is, and darkness is an existence without understanding, God is the understanding of that darkness even though God cannot KNOW the darkness, God can only know OF the darkness. – The KNOWLEDGE of Truth can only come by Faith in the Word of God and God is that Word and not the absence of the Word.

If “I” said that God “IS”, is that not saying the same thing that God says in “I AM”? – “I AM”, but that doesn’t mean anything different from God saying that He is the “I AM”, but “I AM” not God, but God “IS” God.

Your word “BEING” is not found in the Scriptures as a noun, as in a Human “BEING”. – Man is the creator of the “Human Being”. - The “Being” is a man-made existence. ---- The Human Being is saying that the creature is BEING HUMANE. - The creature that says HE is a Human Being is the height of folly that refers that He is the creature that is HUMANE. - It’s MAN / “MAN”, and man is the most INHUMANE creature created by God, therefore the darkness, and the need for the Light.

Paul – 042011

 

[One Truth]

TOTAL? ---- There is a darkness and in God there is no darkness at all. --- You may say that darkness is not an existence, however, darkness is the ABSENCE of God, so there is an absence of God, even though God is in that darkness. – Therefore, God is not his own absence which is the darkness which makes up the other half of all existence. --- God is not philosophical, and cannot be understood by reasoning. – If darkness is, and darkness is an existence without understanding, God is the understanding of that darkness even though God cannot KNOW the darkness, God can only know OF the darkness. – The KNOWLEDGE of Truth can only come by Faith in the Word of God and God is that Word and not the absence of the Word.

If “I” said that God “IS”, is that not saying the same thing that God says in “I AM”? – “I AM”, but that doesn’t mean anything different from God saying that He is the “I AM”, but “I AM” not God, but God “IS” God.

Your word “BEING” is not found in the Scriptures as a noun, as in a Human “BEING”. – Man is the creator of the “Human Being”. - The “Being” is a man-made existence. ---- The Human Being is saying that the creature is BEING HUMANE. - The creature that says HE is a Human Being is the height of folly that refers that He is the creature that is HUMANE. - It’s MAN / “MAN”, and man is the most INHUMANE creature created by God, therefore the darkness, and the need for the Light.

Paul – 042011

Where do you derive your illogical "reasoning" from? God cannot be "separated". He is One. There is no "other half of existence". Darkness is not the "absence of Light". Darkness is the refusal of Light. Light overcomes darkness by removing the cover of ignorance. God is neither ignorant nor in refusal of Himself. He is All that Is and darkness is not an Entity nor a Being. Darkness is a "conditional state" of existence. God is Light, dwells in Light and does not "know" darkness in that His Light "destroys" the darkness (ignorance, unknowing). Darkness is not "separate" from God; it one with God and is removed by His Light. We see darkness only because we do not dwell in Light. If we did, we could not see the darkness.

 

[Letsargue]

Where do you derive your illogical "reasoning" from? God cannot be "separated". He is One. There is no "other half of existence". Darkness is not the "absence of Light". Darkness is the refusal of Light. Light overcomes darkness by removing the cover of ignorance. God is neither ignorant nor in refusal of Himself. He is All that Is and darkness is not an Entity nor a Being. Darkness is a "conditional state" of existence. God is Light, dwells in Light and does not "know" darkness in that His Light "destroys" the darkness (ignorance, unknowing). Darkness is not "separate" from God; it one with God and is removed by His Light. We see darkness only because we do not dwell in Light. If we did, we could not see the darkness.

You're just using different words to say the same thing. - I know that makes some of you feel good about yourselves, but it's a little childish.

God is not the darkness! - Darkness is separate from God, or haven't you heard? -- God is ONE, but not with DARKNESS. ---

Never mind, you can never get it!

Paul -- 042511

 

[freelight]

where there is light, there is shadow......where dimensions relate

where there is light, there is shadow......where dimensions relate

You're just using different words to say the same thing. - I know that makes some of you feel good about yourselves, but it's a little childish.

God is not the darkness! - Darkness is separate from God, or haven't you heard? -- God is ONE, but not with DARKNESS. ---

Never mind, you can never get it!

Paul -- 042511

The dual theme of 'light' and 'darkness' is a wonderful one,...nothing to really confuse. In relativity,...there co-exists both light and darkness as both interplay within perception, in whatever capacity they relate or contrast each other. 'God' is the light of infinite intelligence, but in a relative world or finite creation,..there are the imperfect shadows of space and time and such cast their impressions within mortal mind. God's Light is sufficient, for it is the only Light of lights by which all is known and being known. - as long as relativity exists,....the play of light and shadow go on.......


pj

 

[Letsargue]

The dual theme of 'light' and 'darkness' is a wonderful one,...nothing to really confuse. In relativity,...there co-exists both light and darkness as both interplay within perception, in whatever capacity they relate or contrast each other. 'God' is the light of infinite intelligence, but in a relative world or finite creation,..there are the imperfect shadows of space and time and such cast their impressions within mortal mind. God's Light is sufficient, for it is the only Light of lights by which all is known and being known. - as long as relativity exists,....the play of light and shadow go on.......


pj

Your: -- Where there is light, there is shadow……. Where dimensions relate ----
A SHADOW cannot exist without one to cast the shadow and leave those in the darkness of the shadow of Jesus Christ. - Jesus stands in the way of the Light. - The back side of God is as a veil to the LOST. – There are only three dimensions in the carnal world. - God is the fourth dimension; “The Height”. --- Ephesians 3:18 KJV – “May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and - “height””.

Light and darkness is a “JUST THEME”. - The Light is exact equal to the darkness, no more, no less. The darkness is also in the exact reverse image of Christ.- ( False Christ, or false truth ). - God is the Light, because the Light is the Truth and the Truth is Christ face to face, not looking to him with his back turned to YOU.

The creation is not ‘finite’, but infinite. If God is infinite, then so is the creation God created. God created the creation equal to himself. – God in a ‘sense’, exhausted himself creating the creation. Christ in the same sense exhausted himself in the creation of the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH.

Relativity can only exist in the three dimensions, not in the Fourth / God / Christ / Heaven. – All things are one in God and not relative to anything but the Truth which is not relative. – Light can have no “RELATION” to darkness.

There is a definite ‘division’ between the Light and the darkness that cannot be joined by philosophy.

I hope you can get help in proving me wrong in all this. -- I love it, don’t you?

Paul – 050211

 

[freelight]

love for the journey...........

love for the journey...........

Your: -- Where there is light, there is shadow……. Where dimensions relate ----
A SHADOW cannot exist without one to cast the shadow and leave those in the darkness of the shadow of Jesus Christ. - Jesus stands in the way of the Light. - The back side of God is as a veil to the LOST. – There are only three dimensions in the carnal world. - God is the fourth dimension; “The Height”. --- Ephesians 3:18 KJV – “May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and - “height””.

We can call the '4th dimension' the 'transcendental...but are there not dimensions beyond the 4th within the infinite expanse, as far as dimensions or densities of existence exist to be defined or differentiated? Also consider that the absolute infinity of God is beyond measure, definity or dimension. Infinity is boundless and can never be limited or confined to any dimension. So...'God' is even prior to and beyond 4 dimensions, transcending the 'heights'

Light and darkness is a “JUST THEME”. - The Light is exact equal to the darkness, no more, no less. The darkness is also in the exact reverse image of Christ.- ( False Christ, or false truth ). - God is the Light, because the Light is the Truth and the Truth is Christ face to face, not looking to him with his back turned to YOU.

As noted, the theme of 'light' and 'shadow' is wonderful,..because both 'appear' to exist where ever there is the perception of 'contrast'; enter: relativity. God's face is omni-radiant, so there is no backside, except what the finite mind imagines, seeing only one 'side' of things instead of pure omniscience.

The creation is not ‘finite’, but infinite. If God is infinite, then so is the creation God created. God created the creation equal to himself.

The grand Universe does exist within finite bounderies/dimensions, however immense it is, so it is not wholly true that the universe (so defined) is infinite, although we can say that 'The Creation'(as the totality of omni-active energy) which includes all divine activity and consciousness....is infinite...in that this vitality of Life is omni-active while 'unmanifest' or 'manifesting' within space or time. If we consider 'God' as 'One' and 'All',....then in truth...there is nothing but the context of eternity/infinity....and space/time arising as a perception of relativity to the senses.

Relativity can only exist in the three dimensions, not in the Fourth / God / Christ / Heaven. – All things are one in God and not relative to anything but the Truth which is not relative. – Light can have no “RELATION” to darkness.

Even in the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th dimension...as long as these are 'defined' and relative to other dimensions...there are 'relations'. 'God' is the One Infinity that is absolute, while all else within dimensioned creation is relative. The subject of comparing the 'absolute' with the 'relative' is another wonderful one we can explore. In this dimension....light and darkness both 'appear' to exist, and will continue to do...as long as the 'conditions' that allow such persist.

There is a definite ‘division’ between the Light and the darkness that cannot be joined by philosophy.

Apart from a journey of semantics,....perhaps a few rays of light can break thru. Any ray of light however is recognized by contrast with darkness or other colours within the light-spectrum. Wherever different colours can be perceived, there is obviously relativity... there being modulations of energy and vibration.

I hope you can get help in proving me wrong in all this. -- I love it, don’t you?

I love it too As a soul-pioneer,....I'm not really in the business of proving anyone wrong, but coordinating points of view that hopefully concur with progressing com-prehensions of reality, and how the 'mind' translates such.



pj