"For by two or three witnesses a matter shall be established."
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Free Will
- Thread starter Aetheryn
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"For by two or three witnesses a matter shall be established."
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Yes, carnal man has a will as I already said, but it is not quite so simple, for the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness; for that which may be known of Elohim is manifest in them, because Elohim has shown it to them. For the invisible things concerning Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal Power and Divinity, so that they are without excuse: for having known Elohim, they glorified Him not as Elohim, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the Immortal Elohim into the likeness of an image of a mortal man. So I suppose that, because of your anthropomorphism, you may indeed have turned your will over to a cruel master; and apparently the same has also taken away your ability to think coherently.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, carnal man has a will as I already said, but it is not quite so simple, for the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness; for that which may be known of Elohim is manifest in them, because Elohim has shown it to them. For the invisible things concerning Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal Power and Divinity, so that they are without excuse: for having known Elohim, they glorified Him not as Elohim, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the Immortal Elohim into the likeness of an image of a mortal man. So I suppose that, because of your anthropomorphism, you may indeed have turned your will over to a cruel master; and apparently the same has also taken away your ability to think coherently.
Then you don't accept the truth of scripture. Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8
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popsthebuilder
New member
Total depravity and original sin are false doctrines.
Why do none even inquire about the sacred writings of the faithful unto GOD? Do you think the 66 book bible comprised by man is more sacred or complete than all other sacred texts together? Do people fear knowledge? What is the harm in sincere seeking when we know to fear nothing but the consequences of our own actions (the judgement of GOD)? Isnt active refusal to find the truth a form of willful ignorance? And is not willful ignorance when propogated as truth towards others,equal to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit? Knowing misdirection and willful ignorance are the same, and both are active negation of what is good and right in favor of ones own idle fancies.
Man is concieved with the potential to go one of two ways or to meander in chaos(lack of action regardless of pertinent knowledge).
peace
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Why do none even inquire about the sacred writings of the faithful unto GOD? Do you think the 66 book bible comprised by man is more sacred or complete than all other sacred texts together? Do people fear knowledge? What is the harm in sincere seeking when we know to fear nothing but the consequences of our own actions (the judgement of GOD)? Isnt active refusal to find the truth a form of willful ignorance? And is not willful ignorance when propogated as truth towards others,equal to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit? Knowing misdirection and willful ignorance are the same, and both are active negation of what is good and right in favor of ones own idle fancies.
Man is concieved with the potential to go one of two ways or to meander in chaos(lack of action regardless of pertinent knowledge).
peace
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beloved57
Well-known member
Once a person flat out deny the truth of scripture, the discussion is over, and freewill is seen to be a falsehood once again.Careful there busy bee: get to far from the hive and you may lose your way.
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popsthebuilder
New member
No one is denying the truth of scripture. They may however, be denying your particular interpretation which isn't even yours but the ideas and conclusions of yet another man.
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Even if we stick to the 66 books of the Bible, which most here would accept as "canon", it is still quite clear that the Calvinist-Reform or whatever they want to be called are engaging in willful ignorance by ignoring those passages which refute what they teach and believe. Willful ignorance is really no different than rebellion because it amounts to turning a blind eye to what you refuse to accept into your doctrine(s).
Thank for suggesting I'm not lostCareful there busy bee: get too far from the hive and you may lose your way.
Return to the Bible
Nanja
Well-known member
Mal. 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Ps. 15:4
In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
Heb. 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Job. 23:13
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
God does all according to His Pleasure or Will.
Is. 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Ps. 115:3
But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Eph. 1:5, 11
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Nanja
Well-known member
So True!
And denial of the Truth of scripture is indicative of a blinded mind Eph. 4:18.
Free will is a doctrine of man, and they don't seem to fully understand what that means. Let's examine:
Sovereign Election: God chooses man; man is predestined
Free Will: man's will chooses God; God is predestined
They ultimately makes free will the dictator of God, as God is treated as a law and salvation an equation-
the very phrase 'free will' was the beginning of Christian denominations.
If you go into a church and the pastor say's 'free will', walk out- you are not in a church focused on God's
Sovereign Election: God chooses man; man is predestined
Free Will: man's will chooses God; God is predestined
They ultimately makes free will the dictator of God, as God is treated as a law and salvation an equation-
the very phrase 'free will' was the beginning of Christian denominations.
If you go into a church and the pastor say's 'free will', walk out- you are not in a church focused on God's
beloved57
Well-known member
Rom 8:8 says what it says. You believe it or not. Those in the flesh can't please God! That is not my interpretation. That's a excuse to reject truth.
Nanja
Well-known member
Yes, they are in direct opposition to God by insisting they can please Him by doing something that He says they can't do Rom. 8:8.
popsthebuilder
New member
To be in the flesh is to be mindful of the wants of self rather than the will and direction of GOD as it pertains to ones own life and all creation so I agree wholly with scripture that the man consumed with the wants of the flesh cannot please GOD as the flesh is corrupt and dying from conception. We are to, by the will and time of GOD and the direction and example of the Christ, negate and separate from all forms of greed, and cling with every ounce of our mortal being to the cord of Faith. That is, of course not that boastful sort of lip service we all here from the knowing hypocrite, but that silent service and stewardship of the Word, by utter faithfulness in GOD. I donot speak of works by the hand of man but of works that are the effect of faith.
peace
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beloved57
Well-known member
popsthebuilder
New member
According to who? Not you surely; as if you of all here have any knowledge or authority.
Establish your claim or donot make it at all.
peace
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beloved57
Well-known member
According to me. Weren't you responding to a post of mine
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popsthebuilder
New member
You conflate the body/temple/vessel with the flesh.
It's your inconsistent nonsense and lack of sight that makes your own position invalid.
The wants of self are at enmity with GOD; that is not to say that one cannot relinquish said wants and follow the Way (established and shown by the Christ) after being given the knowledge and, or understanding to do such from GOD and by the will of GOD.
peace
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