SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
ECT Faulty covenant?
- Thread starter Tambora
- Start date
:chuckle:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are wrong. we have the ministry of the New Testament and not a New Covenant. The New Testament is the last will and testament of the Lord Jesus and in that testament is found the gospel.
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament (diatheke); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Cor.3:6; KJV).
When we look at the words describing the New Diatheke (the spirit giveth life) we can understand that the ministry in question is preaching the gospel. That is the ministry which Paul speaks of here:
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24).
John Calvin certainly understood that Paul was speaking of the ministry to preach the gospel, writing the following:
"'Not of the letter but of the spirit'...There is, however, no doubt, that by the term 'letter,' he means the Old Testament, as by the term 'spirit' he means the gospel; for, after having called himself a 'minister of the New Testament,' he immediately adds, by way of exposition, that he is a 'minister of the spirit,' and contrasts the letter with the spirit" [emphasis added] (John Calvin, Commentary on Corinthians - Volume 2, Christian Classics Ethereal Library).
In the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary we read the following remarks on 2 Corinthians 3:6:
"spirit giveth life--The spirit of the Gospel when brought home to the heart by the Holy Spirit, gives new spiritual life to a man (Ro 6:4, 11)" [emphasis added] (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, Commentary at 2 Corinthians 3:6).
Therefore, we can understand that when Paul uses the word diatheke at 2 Corinthians 3:6 the meaning of that word is the "gospel."
Also, when we look at the beginning of the next chapter we can see Paul speaking of the same ministry and it is certain that that ministry is referring to preaching the glorious gospel of Christ:
"Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord" (2 Cor.4:1-4).
Paul's words "this ministry" are obviously pointing back to the "ministry" of 2 Cor.3:6 and it is evident that his words "this ministry" are in regard to the "manifestation of the truth," the preaching of "Christ Jesus the Lord"-- "the glorious gospel of Christ."
Albert Barnes wrote the following commentary on 2 Corinthians 4:1:
"Seeing we have this ministry - The gospel ministry, so much more glorious than that of Moses 2 Corinthians 3:6; which is the ministry by which the Holy Spirit acts on the hearts of people 2 Corinthians 3:8; which is the ministry of that system by which people are justified 2 Corinthians 3:9; and which is the ministry of a system so pure and unclouded, 2 Corinthians 3:9-11, 2 Corinthians 3:18" (Barnes' Notes on the Bible; Commentary at 2 Corinthians 4:1).
In the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary we read: "seeing we have this ministry'The ministration of the Spirit' (2Co 3:8, 9): the ministry of such a spiritual, liberty-giving Gospel: resuming 2Co 3:6, 8" (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, Commentary at 2 Corinthians 4:1).
Since we know that the words "this ministry" are referring to the preaching of the gospel and those same words are referring to the ministry mentioned at 3:6 then we know that both are referring to a ministry of the gospel. It is the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) and it is the gospel which gives life, as witnessed by the following words of the Lord Jesus:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
So we can see that when Paul spoke of a ministry of a diatheke at 2 Corinthians 3:6 he was speaking of a "testament" and not a "covenant."
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Matthew 10:23 (KJV)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, every single one of them will be believers and they will all be the physical descendants of Israel. And in a sense they will all be a remnant:
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God" (Zech.13:8-9).
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Interplanner
Well-known member
Nonsense on the last point Jerry. there is just one Greek term. Stop seeing double everywhere.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You prove once again that you are blind when it comes to understanding the Scriptures, being unable to tell the difference between a "covenant" and a "testament."
Lon
Well-known member
It is the difference between Covenant and Dispensational theology. The whole subset of supposition drives the interpretation.
I'd imagine Interplanner is Reformed rather than a Dispensationalist :think:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Lon
Well-known member
I agree. I think it helps in these discussions, to know where the other guy is coming from.
"It is the difference between Covenant and Dispensational theology. The whole subset of supposition drives the interpretation.
I'd imagine Interplanner is Reformed rather than a Dispensationalist"
For Church Christians everything has to be out of an approved church theology. For church Christians there can be no other approved theology. There can be no remnant of Israel which follows the Lamb whithersoever he goes and is critical of any false doctrine.
I'd imagine Interplanner is Reformed rather than a Dispensationalist"
For Church Christians everything has to be out of an approved church theology. For church Christians there can be no other approved theology. There can be no remnant of Israel which follows the Lamb whithersoever he goes and is critical of any false doctrine.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
huh
The old covenant was only a foreshadowing of the good things to come, rather than the reality. Therefore, it could not make souls perfect (Hebrews 10:1).
The old covenant could not make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience (Heb 9:9), because it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away mans' sins (Heb 10:4).
Therefore, with His own blood Jesus entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb 9:12).
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The ceremonial temple ordinances taught the necessity of substitutional life/death and blood shed (of the promised Savior) for the remission of sins.
Resurrection of the slain body that accomplishes this atonement, is taught throughout the O.T. by prophets and Psalmists, etc.
See this for references.
andyc
New member
He met you lot.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
That's no excuse.
andyc
New member
Yeah you could be right. The thing is, when you were all mocking me and my faith when I was recovering from a smashed vertebrae, I realised how much I didn't care any more.
andyc
New member
Actually, as an update, I went to work two weeks earlier than my GP allowed, against the doctors decision, and against my company's decision, and haven't had a day sick since my first day back in November. The physiotherapist refused to see me anymore after only two visits, and the surgeon cancelled my follow up appointment in April because he's lost interest.
Are you ready to include God in this recovery yet?
Are you ready to include God in this recovery yet?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
All of the Temple Ordinances pertaining to the Priesthood, prefigured the Priesthood of Jesus Christ, which necessitated His bodily resurrection to sit at the right hand of God as High Priest and Intercessor for His people.
Hebrews 10:12-17 quotes from Psalm 110:1 and Jeremiah 31:33-34 which reveals this truth.
Also there are the accounts of Melchizedek's Kingship and Priesthood (Hebrews 7:2-4; 8:1) that prefigured Christ's kingdom rule and eternal advocacy, as found in Genesis 14:18-20 and Psalm 110:4.
Hebrews 10:12-17 quotes from Psalm 110:1 and Jeremiah 31:33-34 which reveals this truth.
Also there are the accounts of Melchizedek's Kingship and Priesthood (Hebrews 7:2-4; 8:1) that prefigured Christ's kingdom rule and eternal advocacy, as found in Genesis 14:18-20 and Psalm 110:4.