Ephesians 1:4, 5, In the Light of the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Jesus Christ is God's new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The scripture says..."He has chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world" Ephesians 1:4.

God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and humanities new representative.

"And has raised us up together and has made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6.

Many do not understand Ephesians 1:3-6, because they do not understand the Gospel. The Gospel is about how God has reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

God does NOT predestinate individuals. God deals with all of humanity in by and through his Son Jesus Christ.
 
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Danoh

New member
My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Danoh said:
My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.
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God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ.

"He (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17.

There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the savior and reconciler of the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We have been reconciled unto to God, Not predestinated unto God.

God now sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. God is now at peace with the world because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, Colossians 1:20.

However, when Jesus returns there will be a judgment to see who is in Christ and who is in their sins, 2 Peter 3:7.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
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You speak evil and against predestination all the time here on this forum !
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).​

The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).​
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Its a false doctrine.

You need to repent from it.

If it were true the Bible would be full of it. There is NOTHING.
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You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).
​
The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:
"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).
​
Click to expand...

They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.
 
D

Danoh

New member
beloved57 said:
You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !
Click to expand...

More of your mess, B57.

He predestinated that He would choose you IN Him, and seal you IN Him "after that ye believed" Eph. 1:13.
 
D

Danoh

New member
beloved57 said:
They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.
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Wrong again!

He predestinated He would conform those who believe... INTO the image of His Son.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !
Click to expand...

Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

Now let look at this verse:

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).​

As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

Now let look at this verse:

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).​

As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.
Click to expand...
They were predestinated then called by the Gospel, so they were predestinated before becoming believers! They were not believers before they were called by the Gospel!
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !
Click to expand...


Predestination is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

God chose all of humanity in His Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

How else are you going to be holy and without blame before him in love? You are a sinner.

"If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:20.

Jesus Christ as God's new humanity has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Predestination is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

God chose all of humanity in His Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

How else are you going to be holy and without blame before him in love? You are a sinner.

"If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:20.

Jesus Christ as God's new humanity has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Click to expand...

Predestination is a Gospel of Gods Grace Doctrine Ephesians 1:3-6 !
 
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