Drug Dealing and the Bible

[Aner]

Hey Jeremy - Hang tight there my friend. God's word is clear - what He made is good - and these sinners that would "call evil that which God called good" are knowingly abusing His Word because their humanistic religious traditions.

They use silly arguments such as relating pharamakeia to hemp when there is NO relationship since pharmakeia occured in the context of witchcraft as opposed to people find some relaxation or other benefit from hemp or any of the other created "things" God has made for us.

As to nightshade - the answer is so simply, I will let those who think of such silly things work their minds a bit to see if they can come up with something more meaningful that honors and glorifies our Creator rather than trashes Him with blasphemy.

Best,
Aner

 

[jeremysdemo]

Do you eat marijuana?

presently I don't do anything illegal.

There was a time in my life tho decades ago that exceptions were made (I wasn't born a Christian).

are you asking if it was legal would I eat beneficial plants? the answer to that based on our current scientific knowledge of it and the scripture would be yes.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

Deadly nightshade does provide us with some medicinal benefits. For example:

Dangers and Benefits of Belladonna, the Deadly Nightshade

Yes, and uranium ore also provides us with medical benefits,
- but its not a food.

All dangerous and harmful substances require careful handling,
and no reasonable doctor would recommending treating Nightshade as a food.

In fact, it is also quite reasonable for governments to regulate the use harmful substances,
and apply rules to what can be used as food-additives, in order to protect the public,
both from unscrupulous profiteers, and from their own ignorance.

The Law is good if used lawfully.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I suppose 'fleeing from the appearance of evil' isn't going to dissuade you?

marijuana is not evil (any more than chocolate, cashews or any other plant containing cannabinoids God created), so it's nothing to flee from.

what is evil is the propaganda greedy men (in the cotton lobby) fed to the staunch right convincing them of "dangers" and "health risk" that simply are fabricated to suite their own agenda.
So evil is this agenda it took something God made and turned it into a multi-billion untaxable industry killing many innocent lives in the process and destroying countless others through incarceration, putting otherwise law abiding a righteous citizens in the den of thieves, yes I recognize the spirit behind that and suggest others drop the scales from their eyes too.

we have 70 years of statistics since the criminalization of marijuana in the U.S. that show how much money the drug cartels made (how much the government lost in taxes) and how much they continue to loose fighting a war they purposefully created, although we can't put a price on the countless lives lost in the crossfire.

that's innocent blood on the hands of those whom were gullible enough to go along with it, if a society has righteous laws and it's citizens are educated to the scripture such things can be avoided.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Paulos]

Yes, and uranium ore also provides us with medical benefits,
- but its not a food.

I never said, nor did I imply, that deadly nightshade was a food. Neither did anyone else. I simply stated what I stated, namely that deadly nightshade can have valuable uses, just like any other plant in God's creation. Even poisons can be used to heal if taken in the right dose:

You might say that a toxicologist studies substances that lead to death. But toxicology is also about life. What can kill, can cure. Said Paracelsus, a 16th-century German-Swiss physician and alchemist: "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy." Poison is in the dose. Toxicology and pharmacology are intertwined, inseparable, a Jekyll-Hyde duality. A serpent coiled around a staff symbolizes Asclepius, the Greek god of medicine.​

Source: http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/health-and-human-body/human-body/poison-toxic-tales/

Hemp seed, however, is a food. And it is a very healthy food at that:

http://nutiva.com/hemp/

 

[Nazaroo]

I never said, nor did I imply, that deadly nightshade was a food. Neither did anyone else.

(1) I wasn't replying to you.

(2) Someone else did:

...
God created marijuana,
he also said quiet clearly that every plant bearing seed was for us to eat.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Yes He did.

Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every plant bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, which has seed in its fruit; to you it shall be for food.

we've already shown nightshades to be a food and beneficial one used in medicine, next.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

Yes He did.

Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every plant bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, which has seed in its fruit; to you it shall be for food.

we've already shown nightshades to be a food and beneficial one used in medicine, next.

keep shinin

jerm

As already pointed out from the beginning of this thread:

(1) Crappy translations...

+

(2) Crappy interpretations...

=

(3) Pure garbage.

 

[Aner]

Guys - It is not that hard

God made it (Gen1:11)
God called it "GOOD" (Gen1:12)

Why then do you call evil by criminalization that which God called good?

BTW - God never gave any government authority to withhold His creation from anyone - or denigrate His creation. It is totally unconstitutional to prohibit citizens from access to the creation of God.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Guys - It is not that hard

God made it (Gen1:11)
God called it "GOOD" (Gen1:12)

Why then do you call evil by criminalization that which God called good?

to support the gangs of murderers and thieves by purposefully making sure they have an inexpensive product with a high return?

we got to remember it's a spirit behind these guys, (and it ain't a holy one if ya get my drift.....:rapture.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

Yes He did.

Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every plant bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, which has seed in its fruit; to you it shall be for food.

we've already shown nightshades to be a food and beneficial one used in medicine, next.

keep shinin

jerm

As already pointed out from the beginning of this thread:

(1) Crappy translations...

+

(2) Crappy interpretations...

=

(3) Pure garbage.

The OP mainly concentrates on passages with references to drug dealing in the Bible.

However, the thread owner has not shown marijuana to be a drug or have any of the characteristics associated with drugs (physical addiction, toxic or harmful to the human body in any way *when consumed as food).
Instead he purposefully obfuscates the subject by bringing in other plants that are toxic, and are harmful in unregulated amounts.

The thread owner claims the KJV translation of Genesis is "crappy" but has offered no alternative translation, another ball dropped there.



keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

The OP mainly concentrates on passages with references to drug dealing in the Bible.

However, the thread owner has not shown marijuana to be a drug or have any of the characteristics associated with drugs (physical addiction, toxic or harmful to the human body in any way *when consumed as food).
Instead he purposefully obfuscates the subject by bringing in other plants that are toxic, and are harmful in unregulated amounts.

I have no interest in demonstrating that marijuana is a drug.
Most people, including scientists and doctors already know it is.
Nobody, not doctors, chemists, biologists, nor nutritionists class it as a "food".
But if they did, it would make no difference to me.

I believe marijuana is a drug, but it is also a drug of no significance.
It is only of significance to you.

Drugs of significance are:

(1) Alcohol

(2) Addictive substances like heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine etc.

(3) Hallucenogenics like LSD, various mushrooms, and peyote, and synthetics.

These are the drugs I would prohibit or bring under strict control for limited medical purposes.

But this thread is not about marijuana, or even about classifying drugs.

Its about informing Christians that consuming recreational drugs is wrong.

The thread owner claims the KJV translation of Genesis is "crappy" but has offered no alternative translation, another ball dropped there.

Given that I have maintained some 40 threads on the issues of versions and translation,
it is a ridiculous statement to say that I have "dropped the ball".
Just do a search for "Nazaroo" threads, and stop being a dunce.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I have no interest in demonstrating that marijuana is a drug.
Most people, including scientists and doctors already know it is.
Nobody, not doctors, chemists, biologists, nor nutritionists class it as a "food".

except the FDA, you must have missed that link in Paulos post 445.

But if they did, it would make no difference to me.

of course not you buried your head in the sands of big business propaganda years ago and haven't come up for air yet.

I believe marijuana is a drug, but it is also a drug of no significance.

you can beleive anything you want to beleive, and discard any of the benefits Gods creations you want as well, but your going to be called out on in on my watch, glory be to the Most High.

It is only of significance to you.

Everything God created has a significance for man, not just myself, George Washington Carver understood that better than most Christians and we still reap the benefits of his research today.
this particular plant happens to have a rather significant contribution for society in that it produces cheaper and stronger fibers than cotton, higher fiber percentage per serving than wheat not to mention all it's documented medical uses.

Drugs of significance are:

(1) Alcohol

(2) Addictive substances like heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine etc.

(3) Hallucenogenics like LSD, various mushrooms, and peyote, and synthetics.

These are the drugs I would prohibit or bring under strict control for limited medical purposes.

But this thread is not about marijuana, or even about classifying drugs.

Its about informing Christians that consuming recreational drugs is wrong.

Well the thread tag has marijuana in it, if you feel this site is misrepresenting your intentions or inclusion of that along with these others you could make that known to them.

Given that I have maintained some 40 threads on the issues of versions and translation,
it is a ridiculous statement to say that I have "dropped the ball".
Just do a search for "Nazaroo" threads, and stop being a dunce.

I detest laziness just as much as the next guy, but what takes more effort you providing one passage with your preferred translation of this verse or me going through you 40 threads to find it?

lets try and be good stewards here and not waste other peoples time which is equally as valuable as your own.
not that it means anything to you but, Matthew 5:22.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Aner]

... or to support a perverted and destructive prison-congressional-industrial complex. Private prisons are a bastion of evil starting with the owners and operators driven by profit rather than by rehabilitation or protection if necessary.

Thanks for the insight - I see that you are strong in your faith.

 

[jeremysdemo]

hopefully one day Christians will realize that righteous judgment not only begins in the house of the Lord,1 Peter 4:17, but extends outward as an example to the rest of humanity as well, 1 Corinthians 16:14.

Maybe then comments with such indifference like "I couldn't care less" when thousands are suffering as a result will cease, 1 Peter 2:12.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

I detest laziness just as much as the next guy, but what takes more effort you providing one passage with your preferred translation of this verse or me going through you 40 threads to find it?

You've finally made clear that you want to know what translation of Genesis I would accept. The answer of course is none.
I prefer the Hebrew.
I think you want a rendering of the Hebrew of a specific line. i.e. Genesis 1:29

lets try and be good stewards here and not waste other peoples time which is equally as valuable as your own.
not that it means anything to you but, Matthew 5:22.

As a good steward I must inform you that Jesus never gave the Sermon on the Mount as recorded in 'Matthew'.

This speech is a literary production by a committee of church leaders,
the ones responsible for the so-called "Gospel of Matthew" (Greek version).

The speech was composed by taking the Sermon on the Plain (given in Luke),
and blending it with the Letter of James, and various other components
taken from Paul's letters (all earlier documents than Greek Matthew).

You can get a good overview of the process by which Matthew was composed by seeing how the author(s) used Mark as a base,
and used Luke as a model, for how to make an 'Uber-Gospel'.

 

[Nazaroo]

Genesis 1:29

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים הִנֵּה נָתַתִּי לָכֶם אֶת־כָּל־עֵשֶׂב
זֹרֵעַ זֶרַע אֲשֶׁר עַל־פְּנֵי כָל־הָאָרֶץ

וְאֶת־כָּל־הָעֵץ אֲשֶׁר־בֹּו פְרִי־עֵץ זֹרֵעַ זָרַע לָכֶם יִֽהְיֶה לְאָכְלָֽה׃
​

Translation:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (KJV)
​

(1) The first thing that is wrong with the translation is the addition of the verb "to be" twice,
which is not present in Hebrew, but assumed to be implied in English, because in English a verb is required for proper formalism.
I will not criticize the 1611 translators for imposing their views of "good English" upon the text. That is a stylism choice, and not particularly important here.

(2) The second thing wrong with the translation is the punctuation.
This however, is far more significant. In line with their own thought-patterns,
but out of line with Hebrew construction, the translators have created a 'run-on' compound sentence.
There is no such justification in the Hebrew.

On the contrary, in Hebrew, sentences and independent clauses often begin with the word "and".
This in fact is a typical 'new-sentence' marker.
Although beyond the comprehension of a typical Indo-European language speaker, its standard Hebrew.

In summary, there are two separate sentences here, each with their own subject.

The situation is not helped by the inclusion of two different statements into one single 'verse'.
Most should know that the verse divisions were a late addition, and based not upon Hebrew construction at all,
but rather on the cadence of the Latin vulgate and/or (for the NT) the Greek sentence-style.

In sum, this should also be split into two separate verses.
Corrected Translation:

1:29a And God said, Behold, I have given you authority over every seed-bearing plant, upon the face of all the earth.

1:29b And every tree, having a seed-bearing fruit - to you it shall be for food.

​

Thus we see two different permissions or precepts:

(1) ownership or authority over every green seed-bearing plant.

(2) permission to eat the fruit of every seed-bearing fruit tree.

Two different permissions, two different meanings.

Common sense also makes this clear.
While all fruit-trees having seed-bearing fruit are non-poisonous and good for food, all green plants are not.

QED






​

 

[CabinetMaker]

If alcohol is poisonous and evil, why did God create fruits such they will naturally ferment and produce alcohol?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Genesis 1:29

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים הִנֵּה נָתַתִּי לָכֶם אֶת־כָּל־עֵשֶׂב
זֹרֵעַ זֶרַע אֲשֶׁר עַל־פְּנֵי כָל־הָאָרֶץ

וְאֶת־כָּל־הָעֵץ אֲשֶׁר־בֹּו פְרִי־עֵץ זֹרֵעַ זָרַע לָכֶם יִֽהְיֶה לְאָכְלָֽה׃
​

Translation:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (KJV)
​

(1) The first thing that is wrong with the translation is the addition of the verb "to be" twice, which is not present in Hebrew, but assumed to be implied in English, because in English a verb is required for proper formalism.
I will not criticize the 1611 translators for imposing their views of "good English" upon the text. That is a stylism choice, and not particularly important here.

(2) The second thing wrong with the translation is the punctuation. This however, is far more significant. In line with their own thought-patterns, but out of line with Hebrew construction, the translators have created a 'run-on' compound sentence. There is no such justification in the Hebrew.

On the contrary, in Hebrew, sentences and independent clauses often begin with the word "and". This in fact is a typical 'new-sentence' marker. Although beyond the comprehension of a typical Indo-European language speaker, its standard Hebrew.

In summary, there are two separate sentences here, each with their own subject.

The situation is not helped by the inclusion of two different statements into one single 'verse'. Most should know that the verse divisions were a late addition, and based not upon Hebrew construction at all, but rather on the cadence of the Latin vulgate and/or (for the NT) the Greek sentence-style.

In sum, this should also be split into two separate verses.
Corrected Translation:

1:29a And God said, Behold, I have given you authority over every seed-bearing plant, upon the face of all the earth.

1:29b And every tree, having a seed-bearing fruit - to you it shall be for food.

​

Thus we see two different permissions or precepts:

(1) ownership or authority over every green seed-bearing plant.

(2) permission to eat the fruit of every seed-bearing fruit tree.

Two different permissions, two different meanings.

Common sense also makes this clear.
While all fruit-trees having seed-bearing fruit are non-poisonous and good for food, all green plants are not.

QED






​

You better not be eating peas. Or beans. Or corn. Or strawberries. Or Peppers. Or using pepper. None of those grow on trees, you know.

 

[Nazaroo]

You better not be eating peas. Or beans. Or corn. Or strawberries. Or Peppers. Or using pepper. None of those grow on trees, you know.

The point is, you can't look to Genesis 1:29 for guidance as to what plants are safe to eat, and what plants are not.

We have to look elsewhere for that.
If its not in the Bible
(and why be surprised? The Bible is not a Botany Handbook)
we have to look elsewhere.

Similarly, we won't find specific commandments about DNA manipulation of food and other organisms.
But we can derive moral and ethical standards from the examples found in Holy Scripture in regard to Genetic manipulation.