Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
This one scripture refutes Calvinism.

"God so loved the WORLD (everyone) that he gave his only begotten Son (Hebrews 2:9) that WHOSOEVER (everyone, anyone) that believes in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

Right out of the saviors mouth.
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
I don't know what you going on about, Michael being Jesus, soul sleep. Etc.???? Michael is an angel, he's not Jesus!

I'm not a JW and I've never been a member of any church, I don't believe in any denomination I just read my Bible and pray to God. And I believe that there are good and bad people in every denomination, no one denomination is right, they've all been corrupted. The only true way is the way of Jesus, and his people are all those from every denomination who truly follow him from their hearts, not just giving lip service. Those who worship God in spirit and in truth, and live by the will of God and not the will of the flesh and who are not of the world.

I get my beliefs from the Bible, mainly because Jesus says God is his God, and as he spoke to the father, he called him the only true God. And the apostles also say that God is the God and father of Jesus and that God is the head of Christ and that Christ is under subjection to God the father. So to me, the Bible is quite clear in that God is the God and father of Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus is the son. And I've shown many verses to show why i believe this way, I don't need any man made religion to show me who Jesus is.

I have yet to be shown one verse that says I have to believe in a trinity to be saved, or that I have to believe that Jesus is God, it says in the Bible that I have to believe, have faith and by the grace of God I will saved. No believing in a triune God no believing in God the son! Unless you care to show me where it is?

I believe in God the father, Jesus Christ the son, and the holy spirit. I believe that they are all the separate but they are all one in love and word and we are at one with them when we truly belong to Christ. But I believe that God is the head of Christ and that he is his God and he has exhalted Christ to the highest in heaven and Christ Jesus is at his right hand over everything and everything must be done through him and the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. And I don't know why people expect me not to believe this, as it says it plainly in the Bible!
Cults had lots of time to spread far and wide. Multiple of new denominations sprout from the same lies. Antitrinitarians are part of it. The only way you get your info is to read other junk from other people . Its in your posts. Good for you that you threw out two big lies of the century but you didn't accept jesus is fully God and fully man. You do talk like JW. They have the same nonsense
 

theophilus

Well-known member
This one scripture refutes Calvinism.

"God so loved the WORLD (everyone) that he gave his only begotten Son (Hebrews 2:9) that WHOSOEVER (everyone, anyone) that believes in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

Right out of the saviors mouth.

This one scripture refutes Arminianism:

Mark 14:22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many."

Right our of our Savior's mouth.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
This one scripture refutes Arminianism:

Mark 14:22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many."

Right our of our Savior's mouth.

No it doesn't. The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus didn't say, "This is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for the elect". He said for many,

Which means everyone, as in Hebrews 2:9.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
No it doesn't. The scriptures plainly teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Jesus didn't say, "This is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for the elect". He said for many,

Which means everyone, as in Hebrews 2:9.

Many does not equal everyone just like few doesn't equal all.

"Everyone" in your scripture means the elect.

:)
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
14446226_10210915045616254_766516348978779776_n.jpg
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Many does not equal everyone just like few doesn't equal all.

"Everyone" in your scripture means the elect.

:)


Like most false teachers you add words to the Bible that are not there. It is the only way that you can sustain your false doctrine.

There are many, many, scriptures that tell us Jesus died for the sins of the world. You either ignore them or change them. Like most Calvinist you are in conflict with the scriptures.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Tulipbee

Your king size illustration is correct.

We are not sinners by our own works, nor are we saved by our own works.

The words "Faith" and "Believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times. They are not related to works.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
Like most false teachers you add words to the Bible that are not there. It is the only way that you can sustain your false doctrine.

There are many, many, scriptures that tell us Jesus died for the sins of the world. You either ignore them or change them. Like most Calvinist you are in conflict with the scriptures.

You ever look up the words you read (in scripture) in a bible dictionary or a concordance? If you don't you're really missing all of what God has to say to you and you make Him out a liar.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You ever look up the words you read (in scripture) in a bible dictionary or a concordance? If you don't you're really missing all of what God has to say to you and you make Him out a liar.

The word "World" means all of humanity.

Jesus said, "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" John 12:47.

Now, being the false teacher that you are, you will want to change the word "world" to the elect.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION],

Maybe your hermeneutic needs some help.

:)

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.

– Psalm 65:4

The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.

– Proverbs 16:4

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

– Matthew 24:31

now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?

– Luke 18:7

So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

– Acts 15:17-18

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

– Romans 8:28- 30

Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

– Rom 8:33

for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,

– Romans 9:11

For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

– Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)

God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

– Romans 11:2

In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

– Romans 11:5-7

but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

– 1 Cor. 2:7

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

– Ephesians 1:5,11

knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;

– 1 Thess. 1:4

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

– 2 Thess. 2:13

Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,

– Titus 1:1

according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

– 1 Peter 1:2

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

– Rev. 13:8
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION],

Maybe your hermeneutic needs some help.

:)

How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You
To dwell in Your courts.
We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house,
Your holy temple.

– Psalm 65:4

The Lord has made everything for its own purpose,
Even the wicked for the day of evil.

– Proverbs 16:4

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

– Matthew 24:31

now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?

– Luke 18:7

So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,

And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

– Acts 15:17-18

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

– Romans 8:28- 30

Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

– Rom 8:33

for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,

– Romans 9:11

For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

– Romans 9:15-16 (the whole chapter)

God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

– Romans 11:2

In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;

– Romans 11:5-7

but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

– 1 Cor. 2:7

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,…

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

– Ephesians 1:5,11

knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;

– 1 Thess. 1:4

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

– 2 Thess. 2:13

Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,

– Titus 1:1

according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

– 1 Peter 1:2

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

– Rev. 13:8


A barage of scripture that is not related to the topic at hand. Same smoke screen as AMR.

There is NOT one scripture in the whole Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

The elect in the Bible are those that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Another one that you reject.
 

theophilus

Well-known member
The word "World" means all of humanity.

Jesus said, "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" John 12:47.[/B]

Now, being the false teacher that you are, you will want to change the word "world" to the elect.

1. I am no teacher.
2. You are no mind reader.

He came, when He did, as a Savior and to show us the heart and will of the Father. He came to save "the world" but not all "the world" wants a Savior and not all "the world" wants Him or the Father telling them what to do (obedience).

He did come to save the world. Not all of "the world" will be or wants to be saved.

Distinguish, please, between "children of obedience" and "children of wrath."

What is the difference?
 

theophilus

Well-known member
"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

This individual called on the name of the Lord, did not obey...and what?

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

These folks called on the name of the Lord...and what?

Anybody can say "Lord. Lord."

Then what?
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
We are not sinners by our own works, nor are we saved by our own works.

And thus, ~REFORMED CHRISTIANITY~

Because God chooses you, not the other way around. Opting to serve God is not something you are capable of doing of your own volition- mankind's free will is intrinsically corrupt.

As long as you all realize that you stole from the ideology of the reformists, I am satisfied. I could really care less about an exercise in futility trying to convince you of the truth :rolleyes:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Don't you think you're calling the kettle black accusing me of being evasive with scripture? Maybe it was a dumb question. But my point of asking is why would someone be considered an enemy if they are pre-destined. Wouldn't that possibly give implications that he takes those who aren't his to be his apart from this election you fawn about? Or maybe simply being elected is taking hold of pre-destination itself. Like say for example God sent his Son to atone for the worlds sin. Now the whole world has been cleansed of sin and are pre destined to be saved in Christ. Now anyone can take this destiny for themselves through repentance and belief.

The scripture itself is testifying how great a mercy God has given humanity to save us through the death of his son. Despite us being undeserving. Basically mankind is against God in general. We're enemies. But that makes it so much more glorifying for God that he decided to treat us in such a manner.

I don't really see how this has anything to do with pre-destination. But I did have to point out the implications of what you said

Rabbit trail.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
A barage of scripture that is not related to the topic at hand. Same smoke screen as AMR.

There is NOT one scripture in the whole Bible that says God predestinates people to heaven or to hell.

The elect in the Bible are those that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Another one that you reject.

Denial of scripture truth.
 
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