Dinosaurs

[Interplanner]

Please sir, tell us what features of evolution Paul had issue with 1800 years before evolution became a scientific theory?


Also if you would kindly answer the clear and plain question laid before you by Cabinet Maker, I'd be in your debt.

There were Greek thinkers who thought of long periods of time, but they were usually puzzled at how the complexity of a human would just arise on its own and believed in a creator. 'We are his offspring' Acts 17:28. There are quotes there from Cleanthus and Aratus.

 

[6days]

Well, I knew that we share over 95% of our genes with chimps

*
Well... you said we share 99.9% and when challenged claimed you were up to speed.

Now you are claiming it's more than 95%... Are you sure you are up to speed now? I could challenge your latest claim, but instead would like to know .....
* If our DNA is 50% similar to a grapefruit, what does that suggest to you?

* If our DNA is 65% similar to an Iguana, what does that suggest?*

* If our DNA is 85% similar to an elephant,
What does that signify?

* If our DNA was 99.9% similar to a chimp...*

What does the similarity mean? Could God have used the same blueprint for the same features? Or does it mean we evolved from grapefruit?

 

[Interplanner]

Interplanner, I have reviewed many of your posts. While I may disagree with some of your conclusions, there is no doubt in my mind that your view of creation is about 10,000,000 times more likely than that of the YECs (i.e. 6days and Stripe). I think you have a fascinating take on much of the language in Genesis and how it can be reconciled with the real world as we know it. So though I may not agree with you that man was put onto this Earth as we are millions of years ago, I nevertheless respect your views and the effort you make to incorporate scientific reality into them

Do you mean as we are now? Do you mean that we are the same now as millions of years ago? I have not seen that.

So you would say that Dr. Ross, U Toronto Astrophysics, is mistaken on his timing of man as being 20K to 40K ago? That he is way too late? Or are you including hominids in mankind, putting the date back millions? If so, how do you justify that when he shows the abrupt change in capacity and art, tools, history, records?

 

[So many gays!]

There were Greek thinkers who thought of long periods of time, but they were usually puzzled at how the complexity of a human would just arise on its own and believed in a creator. 'We are his offspring' Acts 17:28. There are quotes there from Cleanthus and Aratus.

I respect the Greek philosophers incredibly, but you have to keep in mind the very limited knowledge that they had. If they were privy to today's resources perhaps their thoughts would be different?

 

[So many gays!]

Do you mean as we are now? Do you mean that we are the same now as millions of years ago? I have not seen that.

So you would say that Dr. Ross, U Toronto Astrophysics, is mistaken on his timing of man as being 20K to 40K ago? That he is way too late? Or are you including hominids in mankind, putting the date back millions? If so, how do you justify that when he shows the abrupt change in capacity and art, tools, history, records?

If I'm not mistaken, Homo erectus arose about 2 million years ago. We are Homo sapiens, a descendant of that species. So yes, man arose as we know it not long ago, but man overall rose a couple million years ago

 

[CabinetMaker]

*
Well... you said we share 99.9% and when challenged claimed you were up to speed.

Now you are claiming it's more than 95%... Are you sure you are up to speed now? I could challenge your latest claim, but instead would like to know .....
* If our DNA is 50% similar to a grapefruit, what does that suggest to you?

* If our DNA is 65% similar to an Iguana, what does that suggest?*

* If our DNA is 85% similar to an elephant,
What does that signify?

* If our DNA was 99.9% similar to a chimp...*

What does the similarity mean? Could God have used the same blueprint for the same features? Or does it mean we evolved from grapefruit?

Still leads to the same question - what is it about humans that make us unique? We do share many similar genes with many different plants and animals. If you understand what genes actually do, then this is not all that surprising a fact. So what is it about humans that make us unique?

 

[Interplanner]

*
Well... you said we share 99.9% and when challenged claimed you were up to speed.

Now you are claiming it's more than 95%... Are you sure you are up to speed now? I could challenge your latest claim, but instead would like to know .....
* If our DNA is 50% similar to a grapefruit, what does that suggest to you?

* If our DNA is 65% similar to an Iguana, what does that suggest?*

* If our DNA is 85% similar to an elephant,
What does that signify?

* If our DNA was 99.9% similar to a chimp...*

What does the similarity mean? Could God have used the same blueprint for the same features? Or does it mean we evolved from grapefruit?

This is good. How different is one kind of seed from another kind, really? Externals yes, transportation yes, but they are both seed.

And then the difference of humans really shows up. It would not make any difference if we slid, crawled or walked on 2s or 4s. The difference is in propositional communication, which we share with God. The gap between us and other animals is too great to bother comparing. 'We are half angel, half animal'--Lewis.

 

[Interplanner]

Still leads to the same question - what is it about humans that make us unique? We do share many similar genes with many different plants and animals. If you understand what genes actually do, then this is not all that surprising a fact. So what is it about humans that make us unique?

Complex propositional communication.

 

[Interplanner]

If I'm not mistaken, Homo erectus arose about 2 million years ago. We are Homo sapiens, a descendant of that species. So yes, man arose as we know it not long ago, but man overall rose a couple million years ago

OK, so then to be clear, Ross is citing the abrupt change in records, tools, history, art as being between 40K and 20K, and says that that is Genesis 1's creation. The differences are so vast there is no point to being a descendant of the previous.

 

[So many gays!]

OK, so then to be clear, Ross is citing the abrupt change in records, tools, history, art as being between 40K and 20K, and says that that is Genesis 1's creation. The differences are so vast there is no point to being a descendant of the previous.

If you could provide me a link to Ross's work I'd be obliged. The one thing I did find lacking in your posts was your faith in Strobel, as my personal research has found him to be misleading at best.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Complex propositional communication.

Complex but not unique. Many animals communicate with each other effectively. Something else makes us very different from the animals. In my mind, that something cannot be found in genetic similarities or differences, it is something else entirely.

(While it may seem that I am being evasive or obtuse, I am not. Know what you believe and why you believe it. I am probing the why.)

 

[Interplanner]

I respect the Greek philosophers incredibly, but you have to keep in mind the very limited knowledge that they had. If they were privy to today's resources perhaps their thoughts would be different?

In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy declared that the earth was a mere mathematical point in a massive universe. This historical observation has been generally suppressed from the public, so that people would think the NT was astronomically primitive. The source is Almagest, book I, ch 5. In Lewis "Religion and Science" GOD IN THE DOCK, #7.

 

[Interplanner]

Complex but not unique. Many animals communicate with each other effectively. Something else makes us very different from the animals. In my mind, that something cannot be found in genetic similarities or differences, it is something else entirely.

(While it may seem that I am being evasive or obtuse, I am not. Know what you believe and why you believe it. I am probing the why.)

Have you noticed any animals building catapults lately? They could sure use them for dinner.

 

[Interplanner]

How about racoons and chickens? Why do they keep fighting with fences and digging under need barriers when they could just, you know, buy some property and have a chicken farm?

What about the rats in my barn? They keep getting felony convictions here (good old fashioned rat traps--slam!) when they also could just take the barley seed out to the back corner and start a farm. No one would notice!

 

[So many gays!]

In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy declared that the earth was a mere mathematical point in a massive universe. This historical observation has been generally suppressed from the public, so that people would think the NT was astronomically primitive. The source is Almagest, book I, ch 5. In Lewis "Religion and Science" GOD IN THE DOCK, #7.

And Ptolemy was right, as were many, including one silenced by the Christian church (I trust you know who I'm referring to). However, Isaac Newton was wrong on many counts. As were others. If privy to today's knowledge, I feel that those who have now been shown to be wrong would reconsider

 

[6days]

Still leads to the same question - what is it about humans that make us unique? We do share many similar genes with many different plants and animals. If you understand what genes actually do, then this is not all that surprising a fact. So what is it about humans that make us unique?

First.... so now you are agreeing that the DNA similarity was an I relevant irreverent point?

 

[6days]

If God formed this earth (the surface) from 'formless and void' and you were to apply that same way of doing things starting from hominids, it is reasonable to say there were things like them that we have now, but other capacities that are way past them.

It's not reasonable if we trust what God tells us. God created man from the dust then woman from a rib.

You always think the only thing different from you is evolution. So everything that is different from how you think and say things is 'evolution.' You're wrong. The star cycle described by October23 is not evolution of organisms. It is just what happens over long periods to hydrogen mass, etc, as it becomes visible.

Huh?
As an atheist said to you a couple days ago...
"Wow. Then the Biblical text is not a simple, clear, and meaningful message to be taken to the world at large..."

 

[So many gays!]

How about racoons and chickens? Why do they keep fighting with fences and digging under need barriers when they could just, you know, buy some property and have a chicken farm?

What about the rats in my barn? They keep getting felony convictions here (good old fashioned rat traps--slam!) when they also could just take the barley seed out to the back corner and start a farm. No one would notice!

Respectfully, I feel you're being a bit disingenuous. Chimpanzees, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas, and other great ape species use tools to hunt and gather food. They can even identify with human children at a young age. The resemblance and similarities are remarkable. It's not something to say "God made us like animals," about, but rather something to be marveled at. That God brought is forth from these creatures, or more accurately creatures like them

 

[CabinetMaker]

Have you noticed any animals building catapults lately? They could sure use them for dinner.

Communicationis an effect, what caused communication is the bigger question.

 

[CabinetMaker]

First.... so now you are agreeing that the DNA similarity was an I relevant irreverent point?

I don't know, is it? God created those genes so I do not think that they are irrelevant. Nor are they that which makes us unique.