Did the presidential debates change anyone's mind?

[eameece]

Jesus was in favor of giving to the poor...voluntarily, not at the point of a gun (or a sword). See the difference?

No. Jesus said to pay your taxes. Today that includes the social insurance programs which have been legally adopted by "Caesar." And thank goodness, because voluntary programs do not meet the need, especially in recessions which cause people to lose their economic means of support through the fault of bankers and not theirs.

 

[eameece]

 

[eameece]

Actually, Jesus also ordered his followers to pay the taxes--and considering that Roman taxes went to support such things as gladiatorial games, wars of conquest, infanticide, religious persecution, the corn dole for Roman citizens, and the Roman temples, I'd say that yes, he authorized payment even if at the point of a gun or a sword.

Good point.

 

[Jefferson]

No. Jesus said to pay your taxes. Today that includes the social insurance programs which have been legally adopted by "Caesar."

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral.

And thank goodness, because voluntary programs do not meet the need, especially in recessions which cause people to lose their economic means of support through the fault of bankers and not theirs.

If the government got rid of immoral fractional reserve banking and high taxes to pay for huge social programs that cause the recessions, then voluntary programs would be able to meet the needs of the poor. Most people can't donate nearly the amount they would like to because the government has already taxed it away from them.

This is why the Bible says, "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2nd Corinthians 9:7)

 

[Granite]

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral.

If the government got rid of immoral fractional reserve banking and high taxes to pay for huge social programs that cause the recessions, then voluntary programs would be able to meet the needs of the poor. Most people can't donate nearly the amount they would like to because the government has already taxed it away from them.

This is why the Bible says, "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2nd Corinthians 9:7)

And you can prove this how, exactly? Anything by way of statistics--opinion polls and the like--or is this just your gut feeling?

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/20/158947667/study-reveals-the-geography-of-charitable-giving

The wealthy folks we have now don't exactly throw their money at charities so what makes you think the money you think that would burn holes in pockets would go to charity?

 

[Junius Gallio]

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral.

So ... Jesus commanded people to do an immoral thing? Remember, some of the tax they paid to the Romans went to support the corn dole.

 

[bybee]

So ... Jesus commanded people to do an immoral thing? Remember, some of the tax they paid to the Romans went to support the corn dole.

Coming from an agnostic position you have nothing of value to contribute to a discussion of what Jesus said or what Jesus meant.

 

[Granite]

Coming from an agnostic position you have nothing of value to contribute to a discussion of what Jesus said or what Jesus meant.

That's completely ignorant and out of line.

 

[Junius Gallio]

Coming from an agnostic position you have nothing of value to contribute to a discussion of what Jesus said or what Jesus meant.

Ad hominem arguments are fallacious by definition.

Jesus said pay the tax, referring to Roman taxes (as separate situation from the tax to the temple, which he also said to pay). The Romans used their tax revenue to support infanticide, a daily dole of grain to any Roman citizen, violent entertainment (gladiatorial games), and wars of conquest.

Now, explain to me how those taxes were acceptable to Jesus, but our taxes are not?

 

[Junius Gallio]

That's completely ignorant and out of line.

He would be entirely in line and on topic if the subject at hand were a purported "spiritual insight." By Christian standards, I cannot contribute to such a discussion, any more than someone utterly ignorant of science could contribute to a discussion of quantum dynamics.

 

[Nick M]

So, was Bill Clinton's rape of Juanita Broaddarick legitmate or not?

 

[bybee]

Ad hominem arguments are fallacious by definition.

Jesus said pay the tax, referring to Roman taxes (as separate situation from the tax to the temple, which he also said to pay). The Romans used their tax revenue to support infanticide, a daily dole of grain to any Roman citizen, violent entertainment (gladiatorial games), and wars of conquest.

Now, explain to me how those taxes were acceptable to Jesus, but our taxes are not?

Living in community requires taxation to provide those services required for the common good.
I certainly subscribe to that .

 

[drbrumley]

Jesus said pay the tax, referring to Roman taxes (as separate situation from the tax to the temple, which he also said to pay). The Romans used their tax revenue to support infanticide, a daily dole of grain to any Roman citizen, violent entertainment (gladiatorial games), and wars of conquest.

Now, explain to me how those taxes were acceptable to Jesus, but our taxes are not?

Taxation by definition is theft. Done by cohersion.

Jesus said pay the tax after the collectors came to Peter to ask him why didn't Jesus pay taxes. There is no evidence in scripture to indicate Jesus paying taxes before then. Then He only had Peter go get a fish and get a coin from its' mouth to pay. Hardly an endorsement of taxation.

 

[Junius Gallio]

Taxation by definition is theft. Done by cohersion.

Jesus said pay the tax after the collectors came to Peter to ask him why didn't Jesus pay taxes. There is no evidence in scripture to indicate Jesus paying taxes before then. Then He only had Peter go get a fish and get a coin from its' mouth to pay. Hardly an endorsement of taxation.

Separate incident. The tax paid to Caesar was what he was asked about in an effort to entrap him--this is the tax (in Greek, this was called the kensos) where he said "Render unto Caesar." The tax you speak of (called the didrachmon) is the Temple tax, payable to the Levites for the upkeep of the Temple.

 

[Angel4Truth]

The ultra liberals here are convincing me that a vote for Romney is in order, that anything under the sun that varies from that kind of mindset, is much better than one like Obama who espouses it and wants to take it even further.

 

[eameece]

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is moral.

But if Jesus said it was, and you guys believe everything he says, then he has you over a barrel.

If the government got rid of immoral fractional reserve banking and high taxes to pay for huge social programs that cause the recessions, then voluntary programs would be able to meet the needs of the poor. Most people can't donate nearly the amount they would like to because the government has already taxed it away from them.

Recessions are caused by the people not having enough money to spend on an over-supply of things, and because financial gamblers can't pay their debts when they come due. Social programs cure recessions, they don't cause them, and neither do high taxes. Lower taxes can be a stimulus, but government spending is a better stimulus. If the government didn't tax "it" away from them, they wouldn't donate. That was the way it was before 1933. You reactionaries don't know any history at all.

This is why the Bible says, "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2nd Corinthians 9:7)

But people don't, or can't, so they need to be taxed. Especially the rich. So, rich guy, render unto Caesar with a smile and pay your taxes cheerfully.

 

[eameece]

Coming from an agnostic position you have nothing of value to contribute to a discussion of what Jesus said or what Jesus meant.

What, agnostics can't read, or understand what they read?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Obama's slogan is; "Change!" That's what we need, so it's best to vote for Romney!!!!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What, agnostics can't read, or understand what they read?

Not when it comes to the "Bible." It's a Spiritual book and needs, Spiritual discernment that, only comes from the Holy Spirit!!!!!

 

[Angel4Truth]

But if Jesus said it was, and you guys believe everything he says, then he has you over a barrel.

explain.