ECT DID JESUS TEACH SOLA SCRIPTURA?

Cruciform

New member
I'm the one challenging you, NOT anyone else. I really don't care what anyone else thinks.
Well, see, I'm just the opposite: I don't much care what you think, since you have shown yourself to be unable to honestly question the present belief system that you have uncritically derived from your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. There are others following this thread, however, who may possess the intellectual integrity and honest desire for truth to seriously and fairly consider the information I've provided. It's for them that I continue to humor you in these posts.

My purpose is to get you OUT of your rut and start being responsible for your words, not links.
Links contain words. I have amply provided the information you've requested, and have decisively answered your stereo-typically anti-Catholic claims on this forum. What you choose to do---or not do---with that information is entirely between you and God, since it's him to whom you will answer.

To many RCs deflect to what the RCC says but can't answer of their OWN accord.
I did answer of my own accord. If you reject the particular form of my answer, then your transparent excuse for avoiding the relevant information provided is noted.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
Well, see, I'm just the opposite: I don't much care what you think, since you have shown yourself to be unable to honestly question the present belief system that you have uncritically derived from your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect.

Yes you are indeed the opposite of me, and I don't question it because I know it. I refute it. Only those deceived or hopelessly indoctrinated don't see that, as is evidenced by PMs I've already received.

There are others following this thread, however, who may possess the intellectual integrity and honest desire for truth to seriously and fairly consider the information I've provided. It's for them that I continue to humor you in these posts.

From what I've been told most don't bother with you because they feel you're hopelessly indoctrinated in the RCC, and you DON'T debate, you post links.

Links contain words. I have amply provided the information you've requested, and have decisively answered your stereo-typically anti-Catholic claims on this forum. What you choose to do---or not do---with that information is entirely between you and God, since it's him to whom you will answer.

Links are only useful if they actually deal with what is being discussed, not as a means to deflect, ignore facts, and obstinately refuse to recognize the TRUTH in scripture. I'm not anti-Catholic, I'm anti RCC. My responsibility before God is to defend His Word, you only defend the RCC and not very aptly. I'm a real person with a real picture and a real first name. You and your profile are nothing more than an icon of the RCC, with about as much knowledge of the Bible as they have.

I did answer of my own accord. If you reject the particular form of my answer, then your transparent excuse for avoiding the relevant information provided is noted.

No ,you answered as a puppet or parrot of the RCC doctrine, not out of your own knowledge. You are the very contradiction and antithesis of what Paul encourages us all to do as believers, in 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)
 

Cruciform

New member
Only those deceived or hopelessly indoctrinated don't see that, as is evidenced by PMs I've already received.
I could say precisely the same about you. (Yes, I've received my own PMs.)

From what I've been told most don't bother with you because they feel you're hopelessly indoctrinated in the RCC...
Thanks for sharing some of the gossip you've engaged in here on TOL. In any case, the very same could be said of any non-Catholic on this forum as well: "You're hopelessly indoctrinated in the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect." I certainly don't see any anti-Catholics here changing their beliefs, do you?

...and you DON'T debate, you post links.
What's to "debate"? Are you, then, searching for the truth, and hoping to find it in my posts? No? So, then, you're not actually here to "debate" anything either, are you. Don't bother trying to apply a standard to me that you're not prepared to have applied to yourself.

Links are only useful if they actually deal with what is being discussed, not as a means to deflect, ignore facts, and obstinately refuse to recognize the TRUTH in scripture.
You're apparently far more impressed with your chosen tradition's claims than I am. You actually equate the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect with "the TRUTH in Scripture." Of course, the two are hardly the same. :nono:

I've provided you with the relevant information in reply to your anti-Catholic claims. It makes no difference whatsoever whether I typed the information out myself, or simply cited an already-existing source---the info would be precisely the same. So your whining about the particular form in which the information comes to you is a sure sign that you're not genuinely interested in truth, but only in arguing for your prefabricated theological opinions.

I'm not anti-Catholic...
Indeed. Do you, then, affirm and approve of Catholic beliefs and teachings...?

My responsibility before God is to defend His Word...

"...His Word as interpreted according to the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect," anyway. Big difference there.

...you only defend the RCC and not very aptly. I'm a real person with a real picture and a real first name. You and your profile are nothing more than an icon of the RCC, with about as much knowledge of the Bible as they have.
Feel free, then, to actually disprove the content of my posts---something you have yet to actually accomplish on this forum. (FYI: mere disagreement or contradiction simply does not qualify as "disproof.")

No ,you answered as a puppet or parrot of the RCC doctrine, not out of your own knowledge.
No more than you answer as a puppet or parrot of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, and not out of your own knowledge. Try again.

You are the very contradiction and antithesis of what Paul encourages us all to do as believers, in 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)
Again, the opinions that you have uncritically derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
I could say precisely the same about you. (Yes, I've received my own PMs.)


It's not an issue of what you CAN say, but what you are ABLE to prove.

Thanks for sharing some of the gossip you've engaged in here on TOL. In any case, the very same could be said of any non-Catholic on this forum as well: "You're hopelessly indoctrinated in the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect." I certainly don't see any anti-Catholics here changing their beliefs, do you?


Well the truth hurts but it's worth it IF you accept it. The point is ALL non RCs here that debate with you don't push institutional doctrine, they support Biblical truth. Sadly you don't see the difference. I don't believe there are any anti-catholics here, and as I've already stated more than once, I'm not anti-Catholic, just anti-RCC, which you also don't see. or understand the difference about.

What's to "debate"? Are you, then, searching for the truth, and hoping to find it in my posts? No? So, then, you're not actually here to "debate" anything either, are you. Don't bother trying to apply a standard to me that you're not prepared to have applied to yourself.


YOU my friend are posting in an ECT forum, and RCC doctrine is NOT ECT. I don't know why you are sanctioned or warned, but I'm not an admin, just someone who defends God's Word to those who don't know Him but want to lie about the TRUE BOC. The standard for ANY professing Christian is the Bible, NOT an institutional doctrine. I'm more than willing to be held accountable by the Bible. The same CAN'T be said for you.

You're apparently far more impressed with your chosen tradition's claims than I am. You actually equate the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect with "the TRUTH in Scripture." Of course, the two are hardly the same.


I am committed to God's Word, and despite your Latin signature, you DON'T search the truth IN scripture, but only IN the RCC dogmas. Feel free to point out truth IN scripture that supports your assertion that the RCC is the ONLY true church.


I've provided you with the relevant information in reply to your anti-Catholic claims. It makes no difference whatsoever whether I typed the information out myself, or simply cited an already-existing source---the info would be precisely the same. So your whining about the particular form in which the information comes to you is a sure sign that you're not genuinely interested in truth, but only in arguing for your prefabricated theological opinions.


You supply links which are onerous at best and nowhere near addressing whatever issue you are being held to account for at that particular time. The form is of course important, otherwise you would make your points and actually quote scripture.

Indeed. Do you, then, affirm and approve of Catholic beliefs and teachings...?


I've answered this question MANY times and you don't or won't get it, but look up a bit as I just answered it again.


"...His Word as interpreted according to the opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect," anyway. Big difference there.


His Word as to what it actually says and which I have diligently studied for over 44 years now. No non-Catholic doctrine is needed or even exists.


Feel free, then, to actually disprove the content of my posts---something you have yet to actually accomplish on this forum. (FYI: mere disagreement or contradiction simply does not qualify as "disproof.")


I have, on the ones you actually said something on. I ignore the links as you well know, expecting you to answer with your knowledge, but which I realize is fairly non-excitant as far as God's Word is concerned.

No more than you answer as a puppet or parrot of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, and not out of your own knowledge. Try again.


Well there is a big problem if you treat God's Word as recently invented doctrine, but I guess that just shows how much of the hook and line you've swallowed in your life as an RC.

Again, the opinions that you have uncritically derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted.


and again, there is a big problem if you treat God's Word as recently invented doctrine, but I guess that just shows how much of the hook and line you've swallowed in your life as an RC.

If you KNOW Christ and God's written Word, there is no Gaudium de veritate. Real Christians have it.
 

Cruciform

New member
Well, let's see if there's a single thing here worth responding to, or that hasn't already been answered in previous posts...

It's not an issue of what you CAN say, but what you are ABLE to prove.
Funny, since you've said an awful lot here without actually proving a single thing.

YOU my friend are posting in an ECT forum, and RCC doctrine is NOT ECT.
Doctrinal authority---the stated subject of this thread---is not a tenet of essential Christian theology...? :doh:


As for the rest of your post, every claim and comment you made has already been answered in prior posts, or could just as well be applied to you yourself. You're merely chasing your own tail at this point. As you like. :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
Funny, since you've said an awful lot here without actually proving a single thing.

Can't make someone believe their short comings if they're not willing to. You are refuted by God's Word regardless of all your rhetoric.

Doctrinal authority---the stated subject of this thread---is not a tenet of essential Christian theology...?

Exclusively Christian Theology is what this forum is about, NOT RCC dogmas.

As for the rest of your post, every claim and comment you made has already been answered in prior posts, or could just as well be applied to you yourself. You're merely chasing your own tail at this point. As you like.

Pointing to links is NOT answering. Being a parrot isn't either. Two very clear examples of your short comings.
 

Cruciform

New member
Can't make someone believe their short comings if they're not willing to. You are refuted by God's Word regardless of all your rhetoric.
You can go ahead and just apply all of that to yourself.

Exclusively Christian Theology is what this forum is about, NOT RCC dogmas.
QUESTION: Is the subject of Doctrinal Authority an issue of Exclusively Christian Theology---yes, or no?

Pointing to links is NOT answering.
Already answered.

Being a parrot isn't either.
Why, then, is everything you post here merely the parroting of the interpretations and opinions that you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
You can go ahead and just apply all of that to yourself.

another commonality of those that CAN'T support their doctrine...act like a child.

QUESTION: Is the subject of Doctrinal Authority an issue of Exclusively Christian Theology

In this thread, it IS. RCC does NOT mean Christian.

Why, then, is everything you post here merely the parroting of the interpretations and opinions that you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect?

What I post are MY thoughts and scripture. I actually thought it out and turned away from the RCC. You however, got sucked in, but there's hope because I know some who were in the RCC for over half a century and still got saved and sanctified. It's one of the reasons I don't back off people like you. Sometimes I am sorely tempted to.
 

Cruciform

New member
another commonality of those that CAN'T support their doctrine...act like a child.
No, merely pointing out that your argument can just as easily be applied to yourself, which weakens it considerably. Also, I have in fact supported all of my doctrine; your glib dismissal of that information in no way changes that fact.

In this thread, it IS.
Good, then the thread does indeed belong in the ECT category.

CC does NOT mean Christian.
Neither does "agrees-with-StanJ." In fact, "Catholic Church" means "original, historical Christianity," since there was no such thing as a "Protestant" for the first fifteen centuries of the Christian faith. This is a demonstrable fact of history.

What I post are MY thoughts and scripture.
...which you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s).

I actually thought it out and turned away from the RCC.
Given that it's highly likely that---having abandoned the Catholic faith at a mere 17 years old---you had no real grasp of Catholic beliefs and teachings in the first place, that's a rather dubious conviction on your part.

You however, got sucked in...
Nope. I spent three years in discussion, prayer, and an intense and in-depth study of the Catholic faith---using all the resources I had acquired at an Evangelical Protestant university, as well as at an Evangelical Protestant seminary---before being spiritually and intellectually compelled to join myself to that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of hell would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). As you say, "I actually thought it out" and turned away from the man-made chaos of interpretive subjectivism and doctrinal invention known as Protestantism.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
No, merely pointing out that your argument can just as easily be applied to yourself, which weakens it considerably. Also, I have in fact supported all of my doctrine; your glib dismissal of that information in no way changes that fact.

If you understood anything about debating you would know using this tactic is child like and carries NO weight whatsoever. You have NOT supported anything, you just post links from other RCC sites that do the same thing, make ASSERTIONS. No facts at all.

Good, then the thread does indeed belong in the ECT category.

You seem to also have a problem with basic English comprehension? RCC doctrine is NOT ECT.

Neither does "agrees-with-StanJ." In fact, "Catholic Church" means "original, historical Christianity," since there was no such thing as a "Protestant" for the first fifteen centuries of the Christian faith. This is a demonstrable fact of history.

Now you're getting incoherent. The Catholic Church has never meant Christian, Christian does. Catholic is NOT in the scriptures, Christian is. Roman Catholicism is a man-made construct of Judeo influenced Christians from the early 2nd century. Today Catholic and Roman Catholic are synonymous with one another. As an adjective, catholic is all encompassing, universal and all embracing, as a noun, it is none of these.


...which you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s).

Which comes from God's written Word and the Holy Spirit, something RCs like yourself fail to comprehend at all because you have never said the prayer of salvation nor received the Holy Spirit.

Given that it's highly likely that---having abandoned the Catholic faith at a mere 17 years old---you had no real grasp of Catholic beliefs and teachings in the first place, that's a rather dubious conviction on your part.

Given that I knew as much as I needed to know it was NOT real and given as I was not ensnared in the dogma you now find yourself bound to, you would be WRONG. The ONLY thing dubious here is YOU.


Nope. I spent three years in discussion, prayer, and an intense and in-depth study of the Catholic faith---using all the resources I had acquired at an Evangelical Protestant university, as well as at an Evangelical Protestant seminary---before being spiritually and intellectually compelled to join myself to that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of hell would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). As you say, "I actually thought it out" and turned away from the man-made chaos of interpretive subjectivism and doctrinal invention known as Protestantism.

3 years? WOW! (He says facetiously)
I didn't need to study any longer to know the RCC was false teaching, but then again I was open to knowing better.
There is no doubt you have been intellectually bound to the RCC, but as their is NO spirituality in the RCC, that can't be possible. Oh wait I must correct myself. You have been bound spiritually, by a lying spirit.
Any RC that actually thinks it out, recants and get's saved. Jesus was a man and He founded THE church, the Body of Christ, of which He is the head, NOT a Pope, which is based on the one confession needed, that He is Savior and LORD, NOT an institution, and that He is the ONLY mediator between God and man, NOT a priest.
It seems you not only swallowed the hook and line, but the whole fishing pole!
 

Kdall

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Banned
No, merely pointing out that your argument can just as easily be applied to yourself, which weakens it considerably. Also, I have in fact supported all of my doctrine; your glib dismissal of that information in no way changes that fact.


Good, then the thread does indeed belong in the ECT category.


Neither does "agrees-with-StanJ." In fact, "Catholic Church" means "original, historical Christianity," since there was no such thing as a "Protestant" for the first fifteen centuries of the Christian faith. This is a demonstrable fact of history.


...which you have derived from your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s).


Given that it's highly likely that---having abandoned the Catholic faith at a mere 17 years old---you had no real grasp of Catholic beliefs and teachings in the first place, that's a rather dubious conviction on your part.


Nope. I spent three years in discussion, prayer, and an intense and in-depth study of the Catholic faith---using all the resources I had acquired at an Evangelical Protestant university, as well as at an Evangelical Protestant seminary---before being spiritually and intellectually compelled to join myself to that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of hell would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). As you say, "I actually thought it out" and turned away from the man-made chaos of interpretive subjectivism and doctrinal invention known as Protestantism.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Stan is very much convinced that his position on any issue is correct and that it is unarguable. You can try to point out logical flaws in his assertions but he'll just tune you out if your ideology isn't in lockstep with his own. So throw as much information and logic at him that you want, but it ain't sinking in
 

StanJ

New member
Stan is very much convinced that his position on any issue is correct and that it is unarguable. You can try to point out logical flaws in his assertions but he'll just tune you out if your ideology isn't in lockstep with his own. So throw as much information and logic at him that you want, but it ain't sinking in

Come on Kdall... you miss me, so you have to look for other things to pick on? You didn't fair very well in the other thread and I'm thinking you probably know a lot less about this issue. But hey I have big shoulders, so jump on in and I'll school you again. :cool: (pun intended)
 

Kdall

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Come on Kdall... you miss me, so you have to look for other things to pick on? You didn't fair very well in the other thread and I'm thinking you probably know a lot less about this issue. But hey I have big shoulders, so jump on in and I'll school you again. :cool: (pun intended)

Allow me to school you in the English language quickly. "Fair" is not the word you should've used. It should've been "fare." Those words mean two completely different things. You're welcome. I guess those big shoulders of yours don't carry much grammatical/vocabulary knowledge?


Perhaps you'd like to explain how I was schooled? However, I doubt someone with as little scientific understanding and an utter lack of objectivity such as yourself could possibly do that. I'd love to see you try, though. Remind me, what is your degree in? What is the highest level (high school/college/grad) that you ever took a course on any of the natural sciences? You seem to think that your advanced age comes with automatic wisdom, but at least in your case it came with ignorance and a lack of ability to hear both sides of a discussion, as you so clearly pointed out when you stated that - and I'm paraphrasing here - you won't bother to look at information from people whose opinions you disagree with beforehand. Do you think that a person hits 60 then suddenly becomes knowledgable about things that they've never examined properly, or in your case, at all?

It's a very fortunate thing you didn't become a judge. And I hope you've never served on a jury.
 

Cruciform

New member
Stan is very much convinced that his position on any issue is correct and that it is unarguable. You can try to point out logical flaws in his assertions but he'll just tune you out if your ideology isn't in lockstep with his own. So throw as much information and logic at him that you want, but it ain't sinking in.
I've been humoring Stan for the sake of any interested and honest readers who might be following the thread, but his stereo-typically sectarian ignorance regarding the Catholic faith is beginning to get tedious. I'll put up with it for a while longer, though he's already been decisively answered at this point---he's just too willfully ignorant to know it.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Cruciform

New member
You have NOT supported anything, you just...make ASSERTIONS. No facts at all.
Pot, meet Kettle.

The Catholic Church has never meant Christian, Christian does.
Again, Catholics are the original Christians, and were such for the first millennium-and-a-half of Church history. Your man-made non-Catholic sect didn't even exist until a mere man founded it only during the past few centuries.

Catholic is NOT in the scriptures, Christian is.
Now go ahead and cite the chapter-and-verse which states that "only words that appear explicitly in the Bible may be used by Christians to describe their beliefs and doctrines."

Roman Catholicism is a man-made construct of Judeo influenced Christians from the early 2nd century.
Post your proof for this bare assertion.

Which comes from God's written Word...
...which you inevitably interpret according to the entire non-authoritative opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect(s).

...something RCs like yourself fail to comprehend at all because you have never said the prayer of salvation nor received the Holy Spirit.
Once again, you merely place your vast ignorance of the Catholic faith on public display. Try again.

Given that I knew as much as I needed to know it was NOT real...
You own posted statements on this thread directly contradict you, which reveal that you in fact know next to nothing about what Catholics actually believe and teach. Your self-delusion is unmistakable.

I didn't need to study any longer to know the RCC was false teaching, but then again I was open to knowing better. There is no doubt you have been intellectually bound to the RCC, but as their is NO spirituality in the RCC, that can't be possible. Oh wait I must correct myself. You have been bound spiritually, by a lying spirit.
Any RC that actually thinks it out, recants and get's saved.
Thank you for nicely proving my point made just above.

Jesus was a man and He founded THE church, the Body of Christ, of which He is the head, NOT a Pope, which is based on the one confession needed, that He is Savior and LORD, NOT an institution...
Once again, you are directly contradicted by the actual biblical teaching on Christ's one historic Church. Try again.

...and that He is the ONLY mediator between God and man, NOT a priest.
Now Google "False Dilemma Fallacy," since that is the logical error you're engaged in here. Also, see this and this.

It seems you not only swallowed the hook and line, but the whole fishing pole!
Pot, meet Kettle.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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StanJ

New member
Allow me to school you in the English language quickly. "Fair" is not the word you should've used. It should've been "fare." Those words mean two completely different things. You're welcome. I guess those big shoulders of yours don't carry much grammatical/vocabulary knowledge?
Perhaps you'd like to explain how I was schooled? However, I doubt someone with as little scientific understanding and an utter lack of objectivity such as yourself could possibly do that. I'd love to see you try, though. Remind me, what is your degree in? What is the highest level (high school/college/grad) that you ever took a course on any of the natural sciences? You seem to think that your advanced age comes with automatic wisdom, but at least in your case it came with ignorance and a lack of ability to hear both sides of a discussion, as you so clearly pointed out when you stated that - and I'm paraphrasing here - you won't bother to look at information from people whose opinions you disagree with beforehand. Do you think that a person hits 60 then suddenly becomes knowledgable about things that they've never examined properly, or in your case, at all?
It's a very fortunate thing you didn't become a judge. And I hope you've never served on a jury.

So what exactly is your point about the OP, or are you just here to yank my chain?
You do sound an awful lot like Cruciform.
 

aikido7

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Banned
solascriptura.jpg
If Jesus preached "Solo Scripture" it was all about the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament writings came after his death.

Jesus' interpretation of Israel's tradition was simply (according to Luke) "love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as you love yourself."
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
If Jesus preached "Solo Scripture" it was all about the Hebrew Bible. The New Testament writings came after his death.

Jesus' interpretation of Israel's tradition was simply (according to Luke) "love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as you love yourself."

the old testament was the letter of the law
and
the new

the spirit of the law
 

Cruciform

New member
What evidence can you give that Rome's teaching on the Assumption of Mary was ever a part of apostolic tradition?
  • I can cite the apostolic testimony of the Early Church Fathers, who knew and were taught by the apostles and their immediate successors.
  • I would also point out that apostolic Tradition applies not only to the teachings of the apostles themselves, but also to those of their ordained successors, the bishops of the Church (Ac. 15:2, 6; 16:4; cf. 1 Tim. 3:15).
  • Finally, I would point to the realty of doctrinal development throughout the history of the Christian faith.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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