ECT DID JESUS TEACH SOLA SCRIPTURA?

[Cruciform]

I does not seem that you are totally against Sola Scriptura. It seems as though you are searching for truth concerning the doctrine. Are you?

Not at all, since Christ's one historic Church has already delivered the truth about Divine Revelation, and it is only left for me to receive it as binding and authoritative. Though I was once a believer in sola scriptura, I subsequently came to the realization that the doctrine simply did not exist in the Christian Church prior to its invention during the 16th-century Protestant Rebellion. Not only is sola scriptura nowhere taught in Scripture itself---thus rendering SS a directly self-refuting concept---but the Scriptures themselves teach against any such notion. The truth is not sola scriptura, but rather the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church as delivered for the past two millennia.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Bright Raven]

Not at all, since Christ's one historic Church has already delivered the truth about Divine Revelation, and it is only left for me to receive it as binding and authoritative. Though I was once a believer in sola scriptura, I subsequently came to the realization that the doctrine simply did not exist in the Christian Church prior to its invention during the 16th-century Protestant Rebellion. Not only is sola scriptura nowhere taught in Scripture itself---thus rendering SS a directly self-refuting concept---but the Scriptures themselves teach against any such notion. The truth is not sola scriptura, but rather the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Catholic Church as delivered for the past two millennia.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

So you believe that the "authoritative" teachings of the Church trump Holy scripture?

 

[Cruciform]

So you believe that the "authoritative" teachings of the Church trump Holy scripture?

No. Rather, I believe that Christ has endowed his Church---and NOT individual lay believers like you a I---with the task of authentically interpreting Divine Revelation, which consists of BOTH Scripture AND Tradition.

In any case, I could turn your question back on you, and ask, "So you believe that the opinions that you have derived from your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect trump Holy Scripture?"



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Bright Raven]

No. Rather, I believe that Christ has endowed his Church---and NOT individual lay believers like you a I---with the task of authentically interpreting Divine Revelation, which consists of BOTH Scripture AND Tradition.

In any case, I could turn your question back on you, and ask, "So you believe that the opinions of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect trump Holy Scripture?"


Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

No, I believe it is the churches responsibility to align itself with scripture through proper interpretation. Don't you believe it should be so?

 

[Cruciform]

No, I believe it is the churches responsibility to align itself with scripture through proper interpretation. Don't you believe it should be so?

Who possesses the inherent doctrinal authority to bindingly determine what is "proper interpretation" and what is not? Is it [1] Christ's one historic Church (whose teaching Jesus equates with his very own in truth and authority [Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15]), or is it [2] lay believers like yourself?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Bright Raven]

Who possesses the inherent doctrinal authority to bindingly determine what is "proper interpretation" and what is not? Is it [1] Christ's one historic Church (whose teaching Jesus equates with his very own in truth and authority [Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15]), or is it [2] lay believers like yourself?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I believe that I have been given the ability through the gifting of the Holy Spirit to properly interpret scripture.

Acts 17:11 New International Version (NIV)

11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

John 14:26 New International Version (NIV)

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

 

[Cruciform]

I believe that I have been given the ability through the gifting of the Holy Spirit to properly interpret scripture.

If so, then the logical conclusion is that everyone who interprets Scripture in a way which fails to comport with BR's preferred understanding of the Bible must have interpreted Scripture incorrectly. Is that your claim?

Acts 17:11

Addressed---and corrected---here.

John 14:26

Here Jesus is specifically addressing the apostles, NOT every individual layman with a Bible and an opinion. (Indeed, the "Bible" didn't even exist at this time.) Try again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Squeaky]

Mark 7:5-13
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?"
6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do."
9 And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
10 "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
11 "But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"--' (that is, a gift to God),
12 "then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,
13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."
(NKJ)

 

[Bright Raven]

If so, then the logical conclusion is that everyone who interprets Scripture in a way which fails to comport with BR's preferred understanding of the Bible must have interpreted Scripture incorrectly. Is that your claim?


Addressed---and corrected---here.


Here Jesus is specifically addressing the apostles, NOT every individual layman with a Bible and an opinion. (Indeed, the "Bible" didn't even exist at this time.) Try again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Is it your claim that you have no ability to interpret scripture. Oh, thats right, you have mother church to do it for you.

 

[Cruciform]

Is it your claim that you have no ability to interpret scripture. Oh, thats right, you have mother church to do it for you.

No more than you have your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect to do it for you.

In any case, you failed to answer my question:

"If so, then the logical conclusion is that everyone who interprets Scripture in a way which fails to comport with BR's preferred understanding of the Bible must have interpreted Scripture incorrectly. Is that your claim?"​

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Puppet]

Already answered here.

Carry on

 

[Cruciform]

Carry on

Carrying on.

 

[Puppet]

Carrying on.

Carry on

 

[Cruciform]

Still waiting for BR's answer to Post #250 above...

 

[Bright Raven]

No more than you have your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect to do it for you.

In any case, you failed to answer my question:

"If so, then the logical conclusion is that everyone who interprets Scripture in a way which fails to comport with BR's preferred understanding of the Bible must have interpreted Scripture incorrectly. Is that your claim?"​

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Anyone who has been given the Spirit of God will also be given those tools to properly interpret scripture. Do you actually believe that just because people do not have theological degrees that can't understand scripture. Shame on you!

 

[Cruciform]

Anyone who has been given the Spirit of God will also be given those tools to properly interpret scripture.

• If the Holy Spirit is leading everybody, how is it that so many of your fellow Protestants categorically disagree with your personal interpretations of the Bible at so many points?
• Or are you suggesting that everyone whose interpretations contradict your own simply must not have the Holy Spirit?

Which one, then, is it? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Bright Raven]

• If the Holy Spirit is leading everybody, how is it that so many of your fellow Protestants categorically disagree with your personal interpretations of the Bible at so many points?
• Or are you suggesting that everyone whose interpretations contradict your own simply must not have the Holy Spirit?

Which one, then, is it? :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Examples please?

 

[Cruciform]

Examples please?

Your Lutheran brothers hold to the doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. You reject the doctrine based upon your private reading of the Bible.

Do Lutherans, then, not have the Holy Spirit, as you claim to have? (Note that this is a central and defining tenet of the Christian faith, as it involves the doctrine of salvation.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Bright Raven]

Your Lutheran brothers hold to the doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration. You reject the doctrine based upon your private reading of the Bible.

Do Lutherans, then, not have the Holy Spirit, as you claim to have? (Note that this is a central and defining tenet of the Christian faith, as it involves the doctrine of salvation.)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You would have us quibble on doctrinal points rather than look to the weighter issues such as salvation. I don't agree with Baptismal regeneration yet Lutherans are my Christian brothers. Do you accept the doctrine of saved by grace through faith alone? It is in the scriptures yet you do not believe it. You confuse James's epistle with Paul's and present a contradiction. Scripture does not contradict itself. Salvation is by grace. The Catholic option is a grace/works doctrine. How many works do you have to perform in order to be saved. Where are they listed? Book, chapter, and verse please. I would really like to know so that I can understand your theology.

 

[Cruciform]

You would have us quibble on doctrinal points rather than look to the weighter issues such as salvation.

Baptismal Regeneration IS a "weightier issue of salvation." You disagree with Lutherans concerning the doctrine of salvation. Which of you, therefore, lacks the Holy Spirit?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+