Creation vs. Evolution

[patrick jane]

Thanks for that Greg. My server went down, but you did a better job than I would have.

People seem to know where every apostle went to and died. They know the second century converts who succeeded the last apostle John, like Polycarp.

At the time Paul wrote, Paul said there were many who saw Christ after He was risen.

1 Cor 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

good scriptures :rapture:

 

[iouae]

good scriptures :rapture:

Thanks Patrick.

The Pharisees tried for 3.5 years to discredit Christ's miracles and failed, since the people believed them.

Then, the moment Christ was resurrected, they tried to discredit the resurrection, but could not since there were so many witnesses, including the guards, guarding His tomb, who were paid to say the disciples stole the body.

Think of the lack of logic to this argument. If they were asleep, how do they know the disciples stole the body? And if they awoke to see this, why did they not stop them?

The conviction of all the Apostles such that all except John died as martyrs for Christ came from them having seen the risen Christ. Peter was a broken man till seeing Christ. And Thomas declared he would not believe till he saw Christ risen. And Thomas too died for his belief in the truth of the Gospel message.

See Matt 28:12-14

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

I have been busy and swamped. I am on page 1030, so I am five pages behind. Bear with me. I will only probably answer those posts directed to me. I've got to tell you here, though, that you are playing with fire trying to say that Jesus didn't exist. Good luck to you in your future life. The only smart one I see is that Hedshaker changed his designation to 'Other.' I hope you all do the same. You need to get closer to Other, instead of Agnostic or Atheist. It's about time that you've grown by now. I/We have been giving you information that should help you to flow away to 'Other.' Why push your luck when you know there probably definitely is a God and His Son, Jesus, and that your insurance has run out when it's time that your car has crashed. Don't be caught without insurance. Better it would be if you could somehow do something even better than 'Other,' but I don't know what that would be. I love you all here and do not want you to go anywhere except to Heaven, so we can converse there and spend good times together. It will really be a bummer if you were on the other side, staying hot. I'm trying to put it in the best possible light. Okay, I will see if I can catch up 2nite. Much Love To All Of My Friends Here!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Make It COUNT!!!

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Quality strawman. 6 days will be proud of you

:chuckle:

 

[MichaelCadry]

You won't say that when you're dripping in warm sticky custard. It's going to happen real soon, no doubt about it, "and "soon" does not mean a million or trillion years. It means less than one year up to 5 years."

So please explain how you soon is more real than my soon?

Get it through your thick skull, soon means nothing. You've been saying soon for two and a half years since joining this forum. It was a matter of weeks or months back then, remember? And you'll be saying the same in five years time, adjusting your time line as you go, just as I predicted, just as every one who makes the same prediction does. You're deluded Michael. Sorry but that much is obvious.

Dear Hedshaker,

Let me get it through your thick skull, my dear friend, Hedshaker, that soon means the future. The disciples thought it would all happen in their time before they died. Everyone thinks it's soon. That's 2,000 years plus. So two and 1/2 years is no big deal, I would think!! I would say less than one to five years. I won't say more. You have to have enough patience at least, to weather the storm. I do. Hang in there. It will be definitely soon enough, Hedshaker. So just start trying to find out more about God and Jesus. That's what I would do if I were you. Honestly. You've got to find out the real truth and it is at your fingertips. You have the Internet, for God's Sake. You can find out if He exists or not. Same with Jesus. Search for Him. Seek Him out. If you really cared, you would. Seek the TRUTH!! Find out what the TRUTH is. It can ONLY help you. Go for it wholeheartedly. It's important Hedshaker. It's the difference of you registering Other instead of Christian. Go for IT!! Why does half the world or more believe there is a God and a Jesus????? Come on. Get on the Peace Train!!

Much Love To You, Hedshaker,

Your Good Friend,

Michael

Alwight is my favorite among you. He is so much more loving than any of you. Why don't you change instead of being steadfastly uncaring?? There is a God. There is a Son that was crucified. You will never escape that haunt. No matter how you try. God won't let you. It has happened and was, and is, a fact.

Renew from within!!!

Michael

:guitar: :angel: :rapture: :rapture: :rapture:

 

[Hedshaker]

Strawman

So then the Biblical creationist model isn't based on anything the Bible has to say about natural and artificial selection, but more about some Christians interpretation?

The Gospel according to iouae vs 6 Days vs The Barbarian vs who ever has an opinion on the matter

It's a young universe <> and old universe <> It's standard evolutionary science but that's how God did it..... and that's before we even get to geocentric and heliocentric beliefs.

Well that clears everything up :think:

 

[MichaelCadry]

You're right it is laughable. Your deliberate ignorance is unfortunately more sad than funny though.

What exactly is an "ape-chimp" supposed to be?

My dear fellow, of course it is happening still. Evolution never stops. Your error is in the limitless arrogance of a fool who thinks he's closer to a deity than to life.

come on, don't tell me you never heard this before:
1) evolution does not have a goal, and humans are not more evolved than other animals. So don't expect the exact same lineage repeating itself. It ain't gonna happen.
2) It takes time. For instance, the divergence that led to modern chimps and us took place on the order of at least 10 million years, mate. But obviously you don't think the earth is older than 6000 years or so, how can you possibly understand the rest then, I wonder......

Dear TheDuke,

You've got to be kidding me! You are nuttier than a fruitcake!! You think I took 10 million years to be created by God in His Likeness?? You are, after all, quite an idiot!! You don't know WHAT is going on!! I'm sorry. I don't mean to be so blunt!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

You're right it is laughable. Your deliberate ignorance is unfortunately more sad than funny though.

What exactly is an "ape-chimp" supposed to be?

My dear fellow, of course it is happening still. Evolution never stops. Your error is in the limitless arrogance of a fool who thinks he's closer to a deity than to life.

come on, don't tell me you never heard this before:
1) evolution does not have a goal, and humans are not more evolved than other animals. So don't expect the exact same lineage repeating itself. It ain't gonna happen.
2) It takes time. For instance, the divergence that led to modern chimps and us took place on the order of at least 10 million years, mate. But obviously you don't think the earth is older than 6000 years or so, how can you possibly understand the rest then, I wonder......

Dear TheDuke,

My dear fellow, you are simply out of your mind!! If it happened for 10 million years, it would still be happening now and we'd be in the midst of it. Are you so dumb??? It would happen within our 6,000 years of being here. We'd see such changes happening. Don't you understand?? I give up on you!!!

Michael

 

[Greg Jennings]

Dear TheDuke,

My dear fellow, you are simply out of your mind!! If it happened for 10 million years, it would still be happening now and we'd be in the midst of it. Are you so dumb??? It would happen within our 6,000 years of being here. We'd see such changes happening. Don't you understand?? I give up on you!!!

Michael

We are in the midst of it, Michael. We are always in the midst of it. It took millions of years to get from ape to man. That's a very long time. Comparatively, several thousand years is nothing. There is no way we'd be able to see ourselves evolving within such a small amount of time. Except for very minor things, such as sickle cell trait, or darker skin in hotter climates, or brown fat in Eskimos (more properly, Inuit) to keep them warm in the frigid North, and so on, it's almost impossible to notice over such a small amount of time.

Perhaps in a couple million years, there will be drastic changes to the body forms that humans currently have. But evolution isn't an overnight process.

Now before 6days jumps in here with his guppies and cichlids once more, I'll point out that those are (compared to mammals, like us) very simple creatures with very fast reproductive cycles. Evolution is the cumulative effect of generational genome change, and as such will occur faster the shorter a creature's reproductive cycle is. For guppies, that cycle can be as short as one month. Humans take (normally) a bare minimum of 13 years to reach sexual maturity. Our reproductive cycles are obviously much longer as a result.

 

[gcthomas]

Think of the lack of logic to this argument. If they were asleep, how do they know the disciples stole the body? And if they awoke to see this, why did they not stop them?

That is assuming that it happened as you say. There is no independent record of what the guards thought or what the disciples thought, saw and did. The only record is a book that, naturally, advocates for its own narrative.

The logic is fine - it is reasonable to dispute the central historical claims without supporting evidence.

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

Let me get it through your thick skull, my dear friend, Hedshaker, that soon means the future.

:rotfl: Really? It's a good job we have your impeccable logic to put us all straight.... so soon means sometime in the future? Wow! I hope you've put this eye opening revelation in your book because the world needs to know, pronto <sarcasm/>

The disciples thought it would all happen in their time before they died. Everyone thinks it's soon. That's 2,000 years plus. So two and 1/2 years is no big deal, I would think!! I would say less than one to five years. I won't say more.

Sounds like a good plan Michael. Don't go saying too much or you won't have any wriggle room when you're wrong again. Play your cards close and keep it soon, just in case, eh?

You have to have enough patience at least, to weather the storm. I do. Hang in there. It will be definitely soon enough, Hedshaker. So just start trying to find out more about God and Jesus. That's what
I would do if I were you.

Well if you were me you'd be on constant alert for tripping into a large bath of hot sticky custard, which will be soon now. I'd like to tell you when but custard fairies won't divulge that information, damn them!

Honestly. You've got to find out the real truth and it is at your fingertips. You have the Internet, for God's Sake. You can find out if He exists or not. Same with Jesus. Search for Him. Seek Him out. If you really cared, you would. Seek the TRUTH!! Find out what the TRUTH is. It can ONLY help you. Go for it wholeheartedly. It's important Hedshaker. It's the difference of you registering Other instead of Christian.

The TRUTH you say? Well I guess it must be the TRUTH because you just said it and who could possibly deny evidence like that?

Go for IT!! Why does half the world or more believe there is a God and a Jesus????? Come on. Get on the Peace Train!!

It's not actually half the worlds population Michael but more like one third, many of whom only see the inside of a church for weddings and funerals. Fundamentalists represent a small minority and young Earth creationists even less. Shocking as it may seem many regular Christians accept the over whelming evidence for evolution. But you have the tinernet, check for yourself. I'm quite sure This forum does not represent the Christian majority, though many here probably don't recognise them as true Scotsmen.... I mean true Christians :devil:

Much Love To You, Hedshaker,

Happy new year :rapture:

Alwight is my favorite among you. He is so much more loving than any of you. Why don't you change instead of being steadfastly uncaring?? There is a God. There is a Son that was crucified. You will never escape that haunt. No matter how you try. God won't let you. It has happened and was, and is, a fact.

Al and I have a private joke where he is now St Al because he displays the patience of a saint dealing with your nonsense and trying to explain evolution to you. But no, I don't believe Christianity has any basis in reality. Sorry but I don't buy a word of it. But even if I had a knock on the head or something and woke up believing in a God, I'm quite sure it wouldn't be Bible God

All the best for 2016 :thumb:

 

[alwight]

Al and I have a private joke where he is now St Al because he displays the patience of a saint dealing with your nonsense and trying to explain evolution to you.

:angel:

Happy New Year!

 

[TheDuke]

I'll come to your defense here, iouae. It's almost without question that a real Jesus walked the Earth. Every religion class I took, and almost every credible source out there concludes that there is simply too much textual evidence (hardly all of it canonical) that points to him being very real and influential.

His divine properties are obviously up for debate. But whether he existed or not really isn't

There are also opinions that during the time period there were so many prophets roaming the land, and the name "Jesus" was actually very common. So some people say that possibly the biblical JC was in real life an entire collection of individuals....

But, or course, it really does not matter

 

[TheDuke]

Dear TheDuke,

You've got to be kidding me! You are nuttier than a fruitcake!! You think I took 10 million years to be created by God in His Likeness??
...
It would happen within our 6,000 years of being here. We'd see such changes happening

Michael

Ahh, yes, how I miss our "meaningful" conversations.
Just do me a favour, mate, if you refuse to even learn the tiniest bit about evo, that's ok. No one forces you. But please, for god's sake, stop spreading all that bull about it.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Without the Bible there is no Jesus, at least no contemporary or pre Bible mention of him anywhere else.

Historic Jesus vs mythical Jesus is an hotly contested issue, what ever anyone says.

Dear Hedshaker,

The Bible mentions Jesus and so does the Qur'an. There you go!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

How on earth do you figure that?
Which JC has mosaics, monuments, busts, statues, contemporary documentation and coinage?
Which JC has no hard evidence at all?

Dear alwight,

Hey, Good Buddy!! You can find Jesus on the cross, hanging from many Christians' necks, to say the least. You can find him in many churches and even a huge statue of Him at Rio de Janiero I believe. I could go on.

Much Love To You,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Heard it all before a hundred times. I couldn't give a hoot about Julius Caesar or Abraham Lincoln or anyone else who isn't claimed to have magic powers. And don't you think that apologetic argument wears a bit thin now? It doesn't change the fact in focus.

I know it's tough that there is no "contemporary" mention of your saviour outside of the Bible but it's the facts. I mean.... here's this guy going around doing all these supernatural magic stuff and what not and no one writes a word about it until decades later. They all must have forgot about it for a while, and pigs might fly.

It should make you think at least, but if you're already too far gone it probably won't. Such is the power of religious belief among some people.

Dear Hedshaker,

It wouldn't matter to you if it were written in a banner across the sky that Jesus was true, would it? No!! It's alright if scientists mention someone's name and it is taken literally as fact, but if someone is speaking about Jesus or His miracles, it isn't fact. There's no getting through to you, Hedshaker. I'm starting to give up on you and Alwight. I guess my only friends ARE 6days and iouae. Otherwise, I am s*** out of luck. What a bummer after two years of trying. You ignore everything written about God or Jesus, but you live by everything written by men about science and garbage. There really is no reaching you, I guess. I give up. No more friends. You are adversaries. This also means that you are led by Satan. He is the one who wants you to believe in everything but Jesus and God. He benefits by it. Have fun with your eternal life. If you don't want to get hot, I suggest you pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness and love, as soon as possible. Oy vay, how can ANYONE reach through the thickness of your scales, so tightly placed together??

I am Sad,

Michael

:shocked: :think: :rapture: :rapture:

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

The Bible mentions Jesus and so does the Qur'an. There you go!!

Michael

And you don't think the Quran could have got it from the Bible?

The sources need to be extra Biblical and contemporary. There are other mentions of Jesus but none of them contemporary.

There you go!!

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

It wouldn't matter to you if it were written in a banner across the sky that Jesus was true, would it? No!! It's alright if scientists mention someone's name and it is taken literally as fact, but if someone is speaking about Jesus or His miracles, it isn't fact. There's no getting through to you, Hedshaker. I'm starting to give up on you and Alwight. I guess my only friends ARE 6days and iouae. Otherwise, I am s*** out of luck. What a bummer after two years of trying. You ignore everything written about God or Jesus, but you live by everything written by men about science and garbage. There really is no reaching you, I guess. I give up. No more friends. You are adversaries. This also means that you are led by Satan. He is the one who wants you to believe in everything but Jesus and God. He benefits by it. Have fun with your eternal life. If you don't want to get hot, I suggest you pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness and love, as soon as possible. Oy vay, how can ANYONE reach through the thickness of your scales, so tightly placed together??

I don't believe in Satan or eternal life either so your nasty threats are wasted on me. I thought you had got past that but your true colours are soon back. And I've already told you myself that you waste your time preaching at me. The stuff you preach makes no sense to me so I just don't buy it.

And btw, you also live by everything written by men since the Bible was written by men. The idea that the Bible was inspired by a God has to be taken on blind faith, which, as you know, I don't do.

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

Hey, Good Buddy!! You can find Jesus on the cross, hanging from many Christians' necks, to say the least. You can find him in many churches and even a huge statue of Him at Rio de Janiero I believe. I could go on.

Much Love To You,

Michael

Hi Michael,
It's nice that many people like to believe in Jesus, and yes I can be quite observant at times since I have even noticed such things myself, but none of that represents any kind of evidence that anyone has ever performed miraculous deeds or has risen from the dead.