Creation vs. Evolution

[6days]

In conventional biochemistry (by that I mean not fantasy biochemistry) the atoms in fat come from water (from the ground) and carbon dioxide (from the air). But in your version, apparently the carbon came from some source based in ground dust.

Was that a carbonate deposit of some kind?

Stuart

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"

But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

 

[gcthomas]

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

Or, they just realised they had been alone all along ...

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

Good one!! God created even the dirt and the scientist has to create his own. Can you imagine how powerful our God is to make a man out of dirt and water? And breathe life into him. It's just awesome. Our bodies are very intricate. Much less, all of the other creatures He's made, those in the sea and on the ground. Plus, there was a time when He created the dinosaurs. It's just really cool, isn't it?

Well, will chat with you later. Keep up the great work of teaching others about our God and Lord.

Michael

 

[Stuu]

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"

But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

1. Take one void...


Yes, this one has always been my favourite!

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

Can you imagine how powerful our God is to make a man out of dirt and water?

...and air, probably.

It's just awesome.

Almost unbelievable, one might say.

Stuart

 

[6days]

Our bodies are very intricate. Much less, all of the other creatures He's made, those in the sea and on the ground. Plus, there was a time when He created the dinosaurs. It's just really cool, isn't it?

Well, will chat with you later. Keep up the great work of teaching others about our God and Lord.
Michael

Yup..... God is pretty awesome, Michael!!

Re. your comment about our bodies being pretty intricate...I did a thread recently about the amazing sequence of events that happens for a human egg to be fertilized. We can look at jaw dropping design features with pretty much every part of our body. If moderators allow, I might do more such threads on hands, ears, eyes, heart, the manufacturing city in each of our cells...and more. There is some pretty fascinating things...where I feel the proper response is worship.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

That would be great!! Do you know how many miles of nerves we have? Is it a lot or am I imagining it. And long blood vessels. We are very complex all due to God, Our Creator!!

Yippee!

Michael

 

[Stuu]

Do you know how many miles of nerves we have? Is it a lot or am I imagining it. And long blood vessels. We are very complex all due to God, Our Creator!!

“It is a branch of one of the cranial nerves, those nerves that lead directly from the brain rather than from the spinal cord. One of the cranial nerves, the vagus (the name means ‘wandering’ and is apt), has various branches, two of which go to the heart, and two on each side to the larynx (voice box in mammals). On each side of the neck, one of the branches of the laryngeal nerve goes straight to the larynx, following a direct route such as a designer might have chosen. The other one goes to the larynx via an astonishing detour. It dives right down into the chest, loops around one of the main arteries leaving the heart, and then heads back up the neck to its destination. If you think of it as the product of design, the recurrent laryngeal nerve is a disgrace." -Richard Dawkins

Dawkins goes on to point out that in giraffes the recurrent laryngeal nerve requires 15 feet more nerve length than is required to enervate the laryngeal tissues in which it terminates.

So much for design.

Stuart

 

[Stuu]

Yup..... God is pretty awesome, Michael!!

Re. your comment about our bodies being pretty intricate...I did a thread recently about the amazing sequence of events that happens for a human egg to be fertilized. We can look at jaw dropping design features with pretty much every part of our body. If moderators allow, I might do more such threads on hands, ears, eyes, heart, the manufacturing city in each of our cells...and more. There is some pretty fascinating things...where I feel the proper response is worship.

I agree that a proper response is to be awestruck. But be warned that the human body is full of examples that give away its origins as an evolved item, not one created by anything like the most perfect engineer that Anselm would have imagined.

You do understand you will be up for a hiding if you seriously try to assert that the human body is a perfect creation? But as always, the true story of biology is much more interesting than inadequate man-invented religious fantasy stories, so you might give people a chance to show just how interesting evolution by natural selection really is, not only in the case of the human body.

Stuart

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Stuart,

I think it is awesome. Thanks for you information. There surely could be a reason for it.

Michael

 

[Stuu]

Dear Stuart,

I think it is awesome. Thanks for you information. There surely could be a reason for it.

Michael

Well yes, there is a reason for it. The recurrent laryngeal nerve has been wrapping itself around the aorta during embryonic development since well before there were either humans or giraffes. Both species have the same wasteful feature because humans and giraffes share a common ancestor that lived 85 million years ago, but actually it is a feature of all vertebrates, although in some individuals the nerve doesn't descend down into the chest and back up to the larynx - which demonstrates that there is no need for it to develop so wastefully like this, no 'reason' for it as you might suppose, it is just an example of embryonic development being stuck with an evolutionary compromise that isn't easy to get out of.

Stuart

 

[Ben Masada]

I don't support the ToE, but Torah says life came from the earth. I also do not have a literal interpretation of Torah. The creation of man was told differently, man was formed from the dust of the ground. In Kabbalistic terms it means that man was made from the impure desires.

To understand my views read this article.

I find no sense at all to say that man was formed from impure desires. On the contrary. As God is concerned, man was formed as the crown of Creation; the only creature with intellect and freewill. As man is concerned, a child is formed as a result of love; save exceptions.

 

[Ben Masada]

Real world evidence, not supernatural magic.

If it is a real evidence that man has evolved from the monkey what happened to the monkey tail that man no longer is born with? If evolution means the loss of body parts how is it that for about 4000 years that Jews have their prepuces cut off the children are not born without?

 

[Jukia]

If it is a real evidence that man has evolved from the monkey what happened to the monkey tail that man no longer is born with? If evolution means the loss of body parts how is it that for about 4000 years that Jews have their prepuces cut off the children are not born without?

Really, really? That is what you believe evolution is all about---loss of body parts? Oh my.

 

[6days]

If you think of it as the product of design, the recurrent laryngeal nerve is a disgrace."

-Richard Dawkins[/box]
Dawkins goes on to point out that in giraffes the recurrent laryngeal nerve requires 15 feet more nerve length than is required to enervate the laryngeal tissues in which it terminates.

So much for design.

Stuart

uh..... I wouldn't use Dawkins as a source if I was you. He has a habit of being wrong about almost everything. He often makes statements about things based on a lack of knowledge. I haven't studied the laryngeal nerve in giraffes but I suspect there likely is a design purpose for the length... Similar to how evolutionists once told us our appendix and many other parts were useless.

 

[6days]

You do understand you will be up for a hiding if you seriously try to assert that the human body is a perfect creation? But as always, the true story of biology is much more interesting than inadequate man-invented religious fantasy stories, so you might give people a chance to show just how interesting evolution by natural selection really is, not only in the case of the human body.

Stuart

Our body certainly is not perfect Stuu. We have several thousand years of mutations that have caused defects. But the evidence is still there of optimal design.
Evidence absolutely supports the Biblical account of a perfect creation that is decaying. As God's Word says 'All creation now groans'.

 

[gcthomas]

He often makes statements about things based on a lack of knowledge.

followed by...

I haven't studied the laryngeal nerve in giraffes but I suspect there likely is a design purpose for the length...

...is just very funny. Where did you get such a feeling for subtle humour?

Similar to how evolutionists once told us our appendix and many other parts were useless.

Vestigial. Vestigial doesn't mean useless, it means it is a leftover from a previous function. It may have a new role or a much reduced expression of the original role. Repurposing old things to a new role is how much of evolution works, so you are setting up an Aunt Sally fallacy here.

 

[alwight]

Evidence absolutely supports the Biblical account of a perfect creation that is decaying. As God's Word says 'All creation now groans'.

No it doesn't, evidence supports adaption, competition and natural selection of the most suitable for the environment.
The human race itself has simply undergone adaption of many individual attributes and characteristics to suit the prevailing climate and conditions of where particular humans lived, be they Eskimos or Africans, Aborigines or Europeans, Asians or Native Americans.
There is no "decline" only a process of continuous on-going adaption and natural selection.

"Decline" however, is perhaps the only way that a supposed perfect designer "god" can be explained by religious creationist apologists in order to explain why life itself so obviously lacks perfection in so many ways.

Theistic evolution really is the only rational way to be a theist imo. OTOH you might choose to be a YEC and irrationally ignore any conflicting or difficult evidence from the real world and from your own, less than perfectly formed, eyes. Eyes that surely no perfect designer would ever be proud of, eyes that could reasonably only have evolved that way. Nor could human eyes have somehow been able to degenerated to be as they are now since despite their problematical inherent construction (optic nerve, blind spot etc.) they nevertheless do work remarkably well. All of which rather suggests anything but degeneration or decline.

 

[6days]

Similar to how evolutionists once told us our appendix and many other parts were useless.

Vestigial. Vestigial doesn't mean useless, it means it is a leftover from a previous function.....

Your argument about vestigial organs is not only an incorrect argument that is faith based, but your argument is using the fallacy of moving the goalposts. I did not use the term 'vestigial organs'. What I said was that the current argument is similar to the one where evolution at told us about our appendix and other organs were useless. And they did use the term useless. If you google it you can find that in older biology textbooks and medical dictionarys. That argument was based on evolutionary beliefs and not on evidence. Scientific research has proven those old beliefs were incorrect

 

[gcthomas]

Your argument about vestigial organs is not only an incorrect argument that is faith based, but your argument is using the fallacy of moving the goalposts. I did not use the term 'vestigial organs'. What I said was that the current argument is similar to the one where evolution at told us about our appendix and other organs were useless. And they did use the term useless. If you google it you can find that in older biology textbooks and medical dictionarys. That argument was based on evolutionary beliefs and not on evidence. Scientific research has proven those old beliefs were incorrect

I introduced the term vestigial because that is the term that is used. You use the term useless to make it easier to attract the simpler meaning.

Vestigial has never simply meant useless. I often reject textbook for classes because they are inaccurate, so you can't use textbook misconceptions to represent the state of the scientific art at any time.

Human toes, for example, have long been considered vestigial. They are over complex structures that are vulnerable to infections and injury. But of course they have a current function, a function that would continue to be met by the foot were toes to eventually disappear. So, toes are vestigial but not useless.

Vestigial has never simply meant useless. It is derived as a word from vestige, which means 'a trace' or 'remnant'. It does not mean useless.