Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

Dear StanJ,

See Post #9899. "Spy" was worth it, though I expected much more. You would probably like it. It's a decent comedy. I mean, Melissa McCarthy surprises you with some good fight scenes. I can't wait to go and see "Jurassic World" to be honest. I need to be blown away. Then "Poltergeist." Maybe next week.

You take good care, Stan. Thanks for posting, dude!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Barbarian,

Why do scientists maintain that the universe is only 13.8 billion years old even though objects can be observed to be 46 billion light years away? And me, I believe the Earth is a young earth that is the same age as the Universe. Any feedback?? 6days, can you help?

Much Respect And Love, In Christ,

Michael

 

[alwight]

Dear Barbarian,

Why do scientists maintain that the universe is only 13.8 billion years old even though objects can be observed to be 46 billion light years away? And me, I believe the Earth is a young earth that is the same age as the Universe. Any feedback?? 6days, can you help?

Much Respect And Love, In Christ,

Michael

Hi Michael, as Barbarian may tell you the universe appears to have been expanding for nearly 14 billion years and there are parts of it where the light still hasn't reached us yet.
Google "visible universe"
It means that billions of years ago the universe was much smaller which is why we can see objects presently 46 billion light years away, they weren't that distance away in the past.

 

[DavisBJ]

... objects can be observed to be 46 billion light years away...

Michael

I am not aware of this claim of 46 billion ly away. What is your source of info?

 

[alwight]

I am not aware of this claim of 46 billion ly away. What is your source of info?

Wikipedia tells me it is the limit of the visible universe.

 

[DavisBJ]

Wikipedia tells me it is the limit of the visible universe.

Thanks. As I understand the wiki article, I think you pretty much nailed it. Universe was smaller when the “distant” light we now see was emitted.

 

[6days]

Thanks. As I understand the wiki article, I think you pretty much nailed it. Universe was smaller when the “distant” light we now see was emitted.

As in Is. 45:12?

 

[DavisBJ]

As in Is. 45:12?

I’m fine with you claiming it is described by whatever ambiguous scripture you can find, just as I would be if someone from a religion dramatically different from Christianity claimed it confirmed some obscure passage in their writings. But science is not going to be obliged to conform to or be guided by any religious text.

In the example you point to from Isaiah, if it means what you seem to want it to, I wonder what good that passage did for believers over the past few millennia before they had any inkling of the size and properties of the universe.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael, as Barbarian may tell you the universe appears to have been expanding for nearly 14 billion years and there are parts of it where the light still hasn't reached us yet.
Google "visible universe"
It means that billions of years ago the universe was much smaller which is why we can see objects presently 46 billion light years away, they weren't that distance away in the past.

Dear alwight,

I don't understand. I have a problem with astronomy. I will keep reading it and try to make heads or tails of it.

Alwight, I've got to get going for now to eat breakfast and some other stuff. Talk to you in a while. Thanks!

Michael

 

[6days]

I’m fine with you claiming it is described by whatever ambiguous scripture you can find, just as I would be if someone from a religion dramatically different from Christianity claimed it confirmed some obscure passage in their writings. But science is not going to be obliged to conform to or be guided by any religious text.

In the example you point to from Isaiah, if it means what you seem to want it to, I wonder what good that passage did for believers over the past few millennia before they had any inkling of the size and properties of the universe.

I agree!
I wouldn't insist that passage be taken literally. *Christians are often guilty of forcing literal interpretations on something which is poetic or allegorical. Others insist that historical passages might be poetic. Most scripture is pretty straight forward though. For example, we can read the gospels as true history, yet understand the parables may not be literal events.*

Anyways.... re that passage in Isaiah, it may be poetic language....it may be the answer to distant starlight. But, both you and I speculate / not science as to how things began.*

I was going to give an example of secular speculation under the guise of science. I Google 'big Bang first instant'. I come up with this gem ..... "If imagining the big bang makes your head ache, what happened an instant later might make it explode. Cosmologists think the just-born universe—a hot, dense soup of matter and energy—went through a burst of expansion faster than the speed of light. Like a magical balloon, the cosmos doubled its size 60 times in a span of 10 to the -32*seconds. This phase, known as inflation, ended well before the universe was even a second old."
http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/...es-first-split-second-boosts-inflation-theory

That must make even you smile at how non scientific they are in attempting to explain problems such as the light horizon at 92 billion years.*

 

[The Barbarian]

Michael,
As I understand it, the universe would be about 26 billion light years across if it was not expanding. However, it is.

Picture a raisin in a raisin cake being cooked. It is, because of the expansion of the cake being cooked, moving away from all the other raisins. The farther away another raisin is from our particular raisin, the faster it is moving away from it. So the speed of very distant galaxies would be effectively greater than the speed of light, seen from our galaxy. But:

Unfortunately, it is no longer true that we shall eventually see that light from those super clusters. The problem is that we now know that due to dark energy, the expansion of the universe is actually increasing at an accelerated rate (actually it has been accelerating for at least 3 billion years). Because of the accelerated expansion, those superclusters, which are now 46.5 billion light years from us, will be receding from us at a rate that is greater than the speed of light by the time we wait another 32.7 billion more years.

So, the diameter of 93 billion light years is, at most, a theoretical estimate of the current distance of all the matter that we can NOW see, even if the light we see is 13.8 billion years old (as in the case for the CMB images).

At 379,000 years after the big bang, there was a bump (overdensity) in the region of space where our super-cluster (the Virgo cluster), and our galaxy (the Milky Way) would eventually develop. You might wonder how far away the bumps were then that would eventually show up on the CMB image show above? Well we can calculate that! The CMB is at a redshift of z=1100. There is a scale factor for the universe that is a function of time, a(t). The redshift is related to the scale factor by
a(tNOW)a(tCMB)=z+1.

Which means that the diameter of those bumps that would become our CMB image would be 96 billion light years/1101 which is 87 million light years in diameter.
http://www.quora.com/How-can-it-be-...rs-across-and-yet-only-13-8-billion-years-old

Makes my head hurt to think about it. I'm just an old biologist.

With Respect and Love,
Barbarian

 

[MichaelCadry]

I am not aware of this claim of 46 billion ly away. What is your source of info?

Dear DavisBJ,

Hey dude!! It's been a long while. Why don't you post more often?? What gives?? Well, good to chat again. The source of my info was from a poster on another website on his thread. His name is Doveaway. That's all I know. But I'm figuring he read it from a good source, or I'd know about it.

God Be With You!!

Michael

:rapture: :think:

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I don't understand. I have a problem with astronomy. I will keep reading it and try to make heads or tails of it.

Alwight, I've got to get going for now to eat breakfast and some other stuff. Talk to you in a while. Thanks!

Michael

It's actually astrophysics which is the difficult part to get your head around imo, I won't pretend to have any skills there, never mind the theories about "dark matter".
Astronomy otoh is more usually about what we can see now, and how everything appears to be as humans throughout history have witnessed it, since in reality it's all in motion.
You really don't have to understand too much of it.
If any of it causes you problems then never mind, there are plenty of unexplained things that the experts don't have a handle on.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael, as Barbarian may tell you the universe appears to have been expanding for nearly 14 billion years and there are parts of it where the light still hasn't reached us yet.
Google "visible universe"
It means that billions of years ago the universe was much smaller which is why we can see objects presently 46 billion light years away, they weren't that distance away in the past.

Dear alwight,

OK. I got to read it slowly again and I do understand what you are saying Al. The more light years that pass, the more new stars we shall see, right?

Cheerio Matey!!

Michael

:think: :cloud9: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

I’m fine with you claiming it is described by whatever ambiguous scripture you can find, just as I would be if someone from a religion dramatically different from Christianity claimed it confirmed some obscure passage in their writings. But science is not going to be obliged to conform to or be guided by any religious text.

In the example you point to from Isaiah, if it means what you seem to want it to, I wonder what good that passage did for believers over the past few millennia before they had any inkling of the size and properties of the universe.

Dear DavisBJ,

Probably didn't help any believers except the more recent believers. Sound Right?

Best Wishes,

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Wikipedia tells me it is the limit of the visible universe.

Dear alwight,

Wow! Wouldn't that be something? How do you figure that?

Michael

:rapture: :luigi:

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

OK. I got to read it slowly again and I do understand what you are saying Al. The more light years that pass, the more new stars we shall see, right?

Cheerio Matey!!

Michael

:think: :cloud9: :cloud9:

Hi Michael, a light year is not a measurement of time it is a unit of distance, it's the distance that light travels in a year. A very long distance indeed but in the universe it needs to be to be a meaningful number.
Light takes time to cover vast distances which is why we can only see some of the universe, it just hasn't got here yet, and maybe never will. If we can't see the light then we can't see the stars.
The further away you can see objects then you are witnessing further back in time what happened long ago, but not as it is now.

Btw no rain here yet, but there might be some in a couple of days.
:cheers:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thanks. As I understand the wiki article, I think you pretty much nailed it. Universe was smaller when the “distant” light we now see was emitted.

Dear DavisBJ,

Now, I understand it even better. Alwight and all of you are pretty smart. I had no idea what the answer was to that doozy!!

Sincerely And Best Wishes!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael, a light year is not a measurement of time it is a unit of distance, it's the distance that light travels in a year. A very long distance indeed but in the universe it needs to be to be a meaningful number.
Light takes time to cover vast distances which is why we can only see some of the universe, it just hasn't got here yet, and maybe never will. If we can't see the light then we can't see the stars.
The further away you can see objects then you are witnessing further back in time what happened long ago, but not as it is now.

Btw no rain here yet, but there might be some in a couple of days.
:cheers:

Dear alwight,

Thanks to all of you for your help. I totally understand now. Hey, you probably will get some rain in a couple days. Is that what they are saying on the weather update? Hope you get a good pouring. Did you ask God?

Just Wondering Brother!!

Michael

:rapture: :shocked:

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

Wow! Wouldn't that be something? How do you figure that?

Michael

:rapture: :luigi:

I'm happy to accept that unknowns exist and that some may never be known, we can't expect that everything is knowable or explainable by humans, we just need to keep trying to find out and not pretend that we have answers when we don't.